Carlos Santanta embarrasses himself at yesterdays Braves game. (construction, quality of life)

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

Funny how, no matter what poiltical belief you subscribe to, or religion you practice, or race or ethnicity you belong to, at the end of the day, this is still ther United States Of America...

And, entertainer or not, Mr Santana is entitled to his opinion, and the right to express said opinion...why do some people labor under the illusion that what THEY say is the Holy Gospel, and everyone else is just supposed to sit down and shut up, because they've got some look on their face, or tone in their voice, we're supposed be shrinking violets and NOT speak up?

And what I just said, again, applies to ALL situations, and ALL people...I may not agree with what you say, but this is America, and I will defend to the last your right to say it...

"Stick to the music Devadip"? Uh-uh...if you have something on your mind, Mr Santana, speak up and speak out, right or wrong...last time I looked, there wasn't a 'National Your Opinion Isn't Important Because You're An Entertainer' law on the books

(I realize I may have just contradicted myself a bit, and if so, I apologize, but I absolutely cannot abide people telling OTHER people that their opinion is bogus because they're a _______ [insert appropriate race, political party, sexual orientation, religion, fan of whatever sports team, resident or non-resident of, etc, here])

PREACH!

[DTL3000]

Carlos Santana embarrassed himself when he released that album with the dork from Matchbox 20 on it.

[Iconographer]

It always amuses me when wealthy entertainers espouse their views to the marketplace only to express resentment that such statements have a commercial impact on their careers.
Our free society guarantees that your civil rights will be protected even if you express unpopular beliefs. It does NOT, however, guarantee protection of your livelihood against the private marketplace. To think otherwise is hubris.

[chacho_keva]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I agree 100% with his position and he was brave for speaking out the way he did.

FWIW, I also absolute worship the music of Santana. He could play a pixie cup and a piece of string for an hour and I would still gladly pay to see it.

I'm 100% Hispanic, and 100% in DISAGREEMENT with Santana! For us Hispanics who were born here, or came here LEGALLY, we recognize the fact that illegal immigration is something that negatively affects everyone's quality of life. . .mine included! I'm tired and exhausted of seeing my hard earned tax dollars go to feed, heal, encarcerate, and house illegal immigrants.

I'm also tired of hearing the same old rehashed rhetoric of "oh, but who will pick your lettuce, collect your garbage, and wait on your restaurant table?" Seriously, is that all illegal immigrants have to offer? Is that your justification for braking the laws of this country? Is that the reason why I should have to put up with people who refuse to become part of mainstream USA? Really? Am I suppose to feel sorry for you?

If you take it upon yourself to brake the law, then be ready to deal with the consequences of your actions.

[Zel Ya]

Originally Posted by suprascooby22

Santana blasts Georgia immigration bill before Braves game *| ajc.com

Your thoughts?

Suprascooby22, president of the Carlos SANTANA fan club, embarrasses himself.

SANTANTA? Really!

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by chacho_keva

I'm 100% Hispanic, and 100% in DISAGREEMENT with Santana! For us Hispanics who were born here, or came here LEGALLY, we recognize the fact that illegal immigration is something that negatively affects everyone's quality of life. . .mine included! I'm tired and exhausted of seeing my hard earned tax dollars go to feed, heal, encarcerate, and house illegal immigrants.

I'm also tired of hearing the same old rehashed rhetoric of "oh, but who will pick your lettuce, collect your garbage, and wait on your restaurant table?" Seriously, is that all illegal immigrants have to offer? Is that your justification for braking the laws of this country? Is that the reason why I should have to put up with people who refuse to become part of mainstream USA? Really? Am I suppose to feel sorry for you?

If you take it upon yourself to brake the law, then be ready to deal with the consequences of your actions.

Good for you that you have a differing opinion. It is your right as a citizen.

However this issue is bigger than just the Hispanic/Latino community and whatever pet peeves you have.

[Cavaturaccioli]

Yet another entertainer who thinks because they're popular they're wise. Shut the hell up and sing or dance or whatever you do and leave the politics at the saloon or the keyboard.

[muxBuppie]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Do you want to know how I know this country's democracy is going to hell in a hand basket? People never take the time to understand the laws that are passed before they get too bent out of shape on them. This is what HB 87 (the new Immigration law)actually says:

HB*87*2011-2012 Regular Session



So if you are like most people and have trouble form of English used in government, I'll help you out with what this new "law" does and does not do.

What this law clearly is not

No where in the above summary does it state this law will only affect those who commit crimes. Rather, it remains extremely ambiguous for how it could be applied and I'll speak on what that could mean below.

I'd like to first state though that I believe immigrants to this country should have a higher standard than citizens when it comes to adhering to the law. When someone migrates to this country they should do so with the goal of bettering their/family lives due to the opportunities we have here and to contribute to society at large by abiding by the law and working as hard as their ability allows them. To do any different would literally be akin to pooping on the millions of people who immigrated to this country over the centuries and helped make America what it is and they should lose their America privileges.

What this law clearly is

So here are the things this law does do:

-Requires employers to verify the legal status of all of their employees (not a bad thing)
-Provides funding for training and the legal enforcement of Federal immigration law in State courts
-Provide funding to County jails to hold those suspected or proven of not being legal residents of the United States separately from the general inmate population
-Require all immigrants to carry identification proving their legal status on their person at all times
-Allow law enforcement to investigate the legal status of any one whether a law has been broken or not

That last point is the one that makes this law unworthy of remaining in place and why it is so controversial. The reason why this law was written so ambiguously was to avoid making the law illegal (by contradicting the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Protection clause of the ) by specifically calling what would constitute someone being suspected of not being a legal resident.

How exactly would one determine that? Is it by the way they dress? Their accent? The type of job they work? Where they live? Would a white Canadian born in Toronto who sounds and looks like an average Midwesterner but is here illegally be more or less likely to be picked up by a police officer for an immigration violation than a Mexican who is here illegally but lives in a crappy part of town and supports his family via day labor jobs? Would a Russian immigrant from a poor family and a thick accent who came here legally and works hard everyday to provide for his family be more or less likely to be picked up by a police officer for an immigration violation than a Nigerian with a great education who studied in American schools all his life (thus having a more American accent), immigrated here legally, and got a job but overstayed his visa and is now illegal?

As you can see, without creating one standard to suspect any resident of being illegal, it would have to be left up to the judgement and the prejudices of the law enforcement officer to determine that. Under that system it would be impossible for this not to come down to whatever people consider to be the hallmarks of being an illegal alien and those hallmarks almost always are ones based on ethnic or racial stereotypes. That is against the law and the Federal judiciary has proved time and again that you can not make laws that favor one group of citizens/residents over another group of residents. We are all equal when it comes to the law (well, at least in theory) and thus should all be treated equally.

In order for this law as it is written to be 100% fair is for every one to be subject to it. That would mean, as the "law" currently exists, you could potentially be pulled over or stopped at any time by a law enforcement officer and asked to prove your legal status. Also, as the "law" currently exists, if the documentation you produce is deemed "insufficient" by the law enforcement officer, they have been given the ability by this "law" to arrest you and hold you until your status is confirmed.

I don't know about you, but I would refuse to prove my citizenship to any government man, law enforcement or not.

These provision of the law need to be removed as there is no easy or fair way to implement them. I am fine with leaving the citizenship/residency verification portions in place for employment and inmates.

This is the most rational and useful post in this thread. Bullbear and suprascooby can't even refute it.

[Zel Ya]

Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli

Yet another entertainer who thinks, because they're popular, they're wise. Shut the hell up and sing or dance or whatever you do and leave the politics at the saloon or the keyboard.

I disagree.

Many people in show business are liberals. I thank them for their support and devotion to such causes as civil rights and gay rights; and of course equal rights and justice for all people.

[mco65]

Originally Posted by mike7586

Well Georgia is part of the United States, so technically it is "everyones" fight. And I don't think he embarrassed himself. Just because a belief is "popular" doesn't automatically make it "right" and people on the other side of the issue can have an opinion about it and speak their opinion when they want to.

I don't care if "this is Georgia", people with different views can live here. Some of you would love to wall off this state and run off all the liberals... sounds very anti-American... more like a bunch of nazi's.

Your absolutely correct.. my issue with Carlos is that he does NOT live in Georgia. HE shows up and tells us our laws are WRONG. noted, but they are OUR laws.. not YOURS.. so go back home.