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Yea those crazy people who don't want to pay for something they won't use and think will have a negative impact on their life.
I used to live on Apple Valley Rd right next to the Brookhaven Marta and the only impact it had on me was random homeless bums walking down my street that came from the Marta station. And the 1% sales tax I paid to never use it.
Poor areas do = crime. What other excuse do you have for the crime rates in College Park? Just random?
And Clayton County, which is relatively poor, wants to join Marta and rich Cobb doesn't want to join. Also just coincidence?
I don't have excuses I have logic..
For starter most people in College Park don't commit crimes. Most people in poor neighborhoods don't commit crimes, only a small amount of poor people are actually committing crimes which means your generalization.
Anyway of which most those "poor" still have cars and can travel anywhere there's a road, they already can go to your neighborhood. Your logic that Transit is what preventing them or enabling them to do that. Already doesn't make sense.
Clayton County has a different racial demographic and political affiliation also, not to mention home to the airport.
Actually The Businesses leaders those in county want it, urban planners and developers in those county want it, Who doesn't want it is the far right wing who has a phobia of diverse but playing political correctness. Who will rail against not only politicians but there own Businesses leaders cause they don't really care for the future of their countries nor factoring in growth and etc.
Criminals are most likely to commit crimes in neighborhoods that they live in. If poor people don't live in your neighborhood then your chances of being a victim go down drastically. Compare violent crime rates in downtown, east point, college park, west end, and buckhead, brookhaven, and decatur. All are car accessible and yet the differences in violent crime are drastic. Mass transit access makes an area more likely to have poor people in it. Avoid mass transit, decrease the attractiveness of your community to lower class residents. Pretty simple.
Oh FFS dude, give it a rest. The only place to avoid crime is living alone in an underground bunker.
Your anti-transit attitude and thinly-veiled racism is helping no one.
For starter most people in College Park don't commit crimes. Most people in poor neighborhoods don't commit crimes, only a small amount of poor people are actually committing crimes which means your generalization.
Anyway of which most those "poor" still have cars and can travel anywhere there's a road, they already can go to your neighborhood. Your logic that Transit is what preventing them or enabling them to do that. Already doesn't make sense.
Clayton County has a different racial demographic and political affiliation also, not to mention home to the airport.
Actually The Businesses leaders those in county want it, urban planners and developers in those county want it, Who doesn't want it is the far right wing who has a phobia of diverse but playing political correctness. Who will rail against not only politicians but there own Businesses leaders cause they don't really care for the future of their countries nor factoring in growth and etc.
Agreed most poor people don't commit crimes but most murders and violent crimes occur in poor neighborhoods. When you go through South Atlanta the business literally have to fortify themselves like a bank at night.
I never said poor people don't have cars. All I said is that poor communities prefer to live near mass transit and therefore if you don't have mass transit it is LESS LIKELY that they will want to move there. Not that they won't. There are no absolutes here.
And maybe some people are content with the size of their county now. Not everyone is interested in constantly adding more people to their areas. I'm not obsessed with the amount of people who come to our airport or what our population ranks to other cities. I'm content with the way things are.
Poor areas do = crime. What other excuse do you have for the crime rates in College Park? Just random?
And Clayton County, which is relatively poor, wants to join Marta and rich Cobb doesn't want to join. Also just coincidence?
I'm still not getting this mass transit = poor people = crime comparison.
So tell me, when did College Park's crime rate go "sky" high? Was it before or after 1988, when the College Park MARTA station opened? Has Clayton County's crime rate gone up since November 2014, when they voted to join the agency?
How about Dunwoody? Sandy Springs? The collection of hospitals that make up "Pill Hill"? Are they any less safe post-2000, when their MARTA stations opened? What about the City of Decatur, is it better or worse post 1979, when the Decatur station opened? Did crime in Fulton/DeKalb just get worse after 1971, when MARTA began operations? Is it MARTA's fault, or might it be because of other factors like, say, economic health or schools? Are people avoiding moving to areas with MARTA access?
Has MARTA harmed the region economically? What about perception; is Atlanta any less "prestigious" because of MARTA's presence? What about the quality of education, has it declined because of MARTA? What about the overall crime rate, has it gone up because of MARTA? Are Cobb and Gwinnett "wealthier" overall because MARTA does not exist in those counties, or could that be because of other factors?
Lets look at a county similar in population and suburban life to Cobb, its larger eastern counterpart Gwinnett. If crime is a problem on MARTA, why do a majority of Gwinnett voters wish to join the agency? Surely they don't want to make their county a crime-ridden hellhole, do they? Keep in mind that Gwinnett voted overwhelmingly against MARTA membership in 1990; what might have changed in that county to have voters warm to membership? Demographics? Positive growth? Increased traffic congestion? A secret desire for more crime?
That all being said, whether Cobb County wants to join MARTA or not is ultimately a matter for them, I understand. But I'm not sure if the issues you bring up as to why it's not a good idea (crime rates, socioeconomic makeup, etc.) are opinions universally shared among Cobb County businesses and residents. East Cobb, Acworth, and Kennesaw may not want it, okay. Cumberland, Vinings, and Smyrna wish to join, and KSU wants to join. DawgPark, a fellow Cobb resident, put it best himself:
Quote:
All that said, there is a measurable ground swell of support for MARTA to the Braves stadium among Cumberland area residents, businesses, and most certainly the Cobb Chamber.
If MARTA will have a 'negative impact' on their lives, why is there support for joining MARTA on the part of residents and businesses in the Smyrna/Vinings/Cumberland area? Might they know something you don't? Perhaps they don't consider the "MARTA = crime" idea to have any merit? Maybe they think that the positives outweigh the negatives?
Finally, consider this piece from Atlanta Magazine on MARTA's general manager:
Quote:
Parker won over some hearts by commuting via MARTA almost every day. More of them became fans thanks to a crackdown on “knucklehead behavior” and practical touches like adding urine detectors to some elevators.
The harder task: winning over politicians and business leaders who have historically treated transit with skepticism, if not outright disdain. This year lawmakers lifted the 1971 requirement that MARTA spend only a certain percentage of its tax dollars on operations and encouraged more public-private partnerships. “Now we can spend the money as we deem best,” Parker says.
The business community approves, too. State Farm, NCR, Mercedes-Benz, and Kaiser Permanente all announced plans to relocate headquarters closer to MARTA train stations. Soon neighborhoods around several rail stations will benefit from plans to turn parking lots into developments. “We have intentionally not set them up so that the highest bidder wins,” Parker says. “Instead, they have to show us how they will improve the neighborhoods.”
What could businesses and historically anti-transit politicians see when moves like this are made, like removing MARTA spending restrictions and relocating near MARTA stations? Are they opening up to MARTA and seeing it as an asset for the region, not a liability? I guarantee you that if crime was such a problem on MARTA, none of this would be happening. None.
Agreed most poor people don't commit crimes but most murders and violent crimes occur in poor neighborhoods. When you go through South Atlanta the business literally have to fortify themselves like a bank at night.
I never said poor people don't have cars. All I said is that poor communities prefer to live near mass transit and therefore if you don't have mass transit it is LESS LIKELY that they will want to move there. Not that they won't. There are no absolutes here.
And maybe some people are content with the size of their county now. Not everyone is interested in constantly adding more people to their areas. I'm not obsessed with the amount of people who come to our airport or what our population ranks to other cities. I'm content with the way things are.
This does back to me saying your connecting unrated stuff, generalization. lets used the stuff you said just to save part of the argument.
Your argument
1. crimes occur in poor neighborhoods.
2. poor communities prefer to live near mass transit
3. if you don't have mass transit it is LESS LIKELY that they will want to move there. ERROR
Lets say someone makes 20k a year that's below the poverty rate, they still could get a cash car for 1 to 2 thousands. Transit is not what keeping low income people away.
What you don't understand is your generalizing "I'm playing along with you" the poor who would ride transit aren't the one who likely to commit crimes. Cause Criminals would prefer Cars, you have to be the dumbest of the dumb to ride public transit after committing a crime. Your waiting..., there's cameras..., there's no trunk for hiding things..
So the people who your scared of "criminals" already prefer Cars and have access to travel where ever they want, but the people you want away poor people you who feel depend transit aren't likely to commit crimes. So in actually it would be just holding back transit.
Also it doesn't matter Atlanta is growing, it's better to plan growth than deal with a headache later
I'm still not getting this mass transit = poor people = crime comparison.
That is because I never once said that. I said it is LESS LIKELY (less likely does no mean equal which would imply a 100% correlation) that poor people will want to live there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17
So tell me, when did College Park's crime rate go "sky" high? Was it before or after 1988, when the College Park MARTA station opened? Has Clayton County's crime rate gone up since November 2014, when they voted to join the agency?
College Park was used as the counter argument to income levels of a neighborhood not being related to crime. College Park was crappy before the Marta station and still crappy after it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17
How about Dunwoody? Sandy Springs? The collection of hospitals that make up "Pill Hill"? Are they any less safe post-2000, when their MARTA stations opened? What about the City of Decatur, is it better or worse post 1979, when the Decatur station opened? Did crime in Fulton/DeKalb just get worse after 1971, when MARTA began operations? Is it MARTA's fault, or might it be because of other factors like, say, economic health or schools? Are people avoiding moving to areas with MARTA access?
Again there is no 100% correlation. But I do know that many of the residents of those cities would prefer to reform Milton County and be politically separated from the City of Atlanta. They incorporated so they wouldn't become part of Atlanta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17
Has MARTA harmed the region economically? What about perception; is Atlanta any less "prestigious" because of MARTA's presence? What about the quality of education, has it declined because of MARTA? What about the overall crime rate, has it gone up because of MARTA? Are Cobb and Gwinnett "wealthier" overall because MARTA does not exist in those counties, or could that be because of other factors?
I actually do think Cobb and Gwinnett are wealthier because they didn't adopt Marta. They got all the wealthy and middle class families that fled the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17
Lets look at a county similar in population and suburban life to Cobb, its larger eastern counterpart Gwinnett. If crime is a problem on MARTA, why do a majority of Gwinnett voters wish to join the agency? Surely they don't want to make their county a crime-ridden hellhole, do they? Keep in mind that Gwinnett voted overwhelmingly against MARTA membership in 1990; what might have changed in that county to have voters warm to membership? Demographics? Positive growth? Increased traffic congestion? A secret desire for more crime?
So the business community wants Marta and the population wants Marta but the aren't part of Marta for what reason? Who is entity that is stopping it? Maybe it is because 70,000 of those new residents are illegal aliens who shouldn't even be in this country and can't vote.
[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17
That all being said, whether Cobb County wants to join MARTA or not is ultimately a matter for them, I understand. But I'm not sure if the issues you bring up as to why it's not a good idea (crime rates, socioeconomic makeup, etc.) are opinions universally shared among Cobb County businesses and residents. East Cobb, Acworth, and Kennesaw may not want it, okay. Cumberland, Vinings, and Smyrna wish to join, and KSU wants to join. DawgPark, a fellow Cobb resident, put it best himself:
If MARTA will have a 'negative impact' on their lives, why is there support for joining MARTA on the part of residents and businesses in the Smyrna/Vinings/Cumberland area? Might they know something you don't? Perhaps they don't consider the "MARTA = crime" idea to have any merit? Maybe they think that the positives outweigh the negatives?
Finally, consider this piece from Atlanta Magazine on MARTA's general manager:
That argument makes no sense because I can just copy and paste and change the names to reflect the areas that don't want it. "Maybe they know something Smryna/Vinings/Cumberland doesn't know?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17
What could businesses and historically anti-transit politicians see when moves like this are made, like removing MARTA spending restrictions and relocating near MARTA stations? Are they opening up to MARTA and seeing it as an asset for the region, not a liability? I guarantee you that if crime was such a problem on MARTA, none of this would be happening. None.
- skbl17
Businesses care about making money. Not what kind of community you live in. If they think a transportation system will deliver more people to buy their stuff they are for it. Especially if other people will pay for it.
Yea those crazy people who don't want to pay for something they won't use and think will have a negative impact on their life.
I used to live on Apple Valley Rd right next to the Brookhaven Marta and the only impact it had on me was random homeless bums walking down my street that came from the Marta station. And the 1% sales tax I paid to never use it.
It's actually the opposite. Everyone uses the road because anything you buy in the city was brought on a truck. Fire, police, ambulances all use roads. Nothing I buy came on a Marta.
Last edited by dcredskins; 09-06-2015 at 08:41 AM..
It's actually the opposite. Everyone uses the road because anything you buy in the city was brought on a truck. Fire, police, ambulances all use roads. Nothing I buy came on a Marta.
Of course not, MARTA is a public transportation agency, not a freight service. MARTA transports people, not goods.
Also, I don't see why this has to become a "roads vs. transit" thing. Metro Atlanta needs to invest in both, not one or the other.
- skbl17
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