MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Clayton: cheaper, boundary)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Looks great, but honestly if it was going to be on railcars, then it should be simplified. Have the streetcar/LRT lines with no stations, but show transfer points to HRT. Maps that are too cluttered are difficult to read and will scare first time users. This is a great detail map for in the streetcars or the streetcars stops.

Well, yes. That's why I didn't include the rest of the HRT system, Clayton Commuter Rail, or the Clifton Corridor as I have on other maps, so we're on the same wavelength here!

[jsvh]

Awesome!!

One thing: Don't they plan to connect the system to the "MMPT" / Five Points station and not Dome / GWCC?

http://beltline.org/wp-content/uploa...ort-022514.pdf

Edit. Probably along Peachtree according to the new plan from Dec 2015: http://beltlineorg.wpengine.netdna-c...1216-FINAL.pdf

[demonta4]

What happened to opening the MMPT in 2017?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by demonta4

What happened to opening the MMPT in 2017?

There is nothing to go there yet. Maybe once Clayton gets going on commuter rail. Or the larger metro region decides on regional transit it will make more sense.

Also sounds like the gutch (where the MMPT was planned) may be getting another development.

But I am still a fan of the MMPT and hope it is built to connect with regional / interstate rail.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by jsvh

There is nothing to go there yet. Maybe once Clayton gets going on commuter rail. Or the larger metro region decides on regional transit it will make more sense.

Also sounds like the gutch (where the MMPT was planned) may be getting another development.

But I am still a fan of the MMPT and hope it is built to connect with regional / interstate rail.

Yeah, I used the old plans, and that was the routing I could see. The 2014 plans had it connected to the MMPT, but not really 5-points. Considering the MMPT was to be, like, 3 blocks long, it made sense.

Reed seems pretty hyped about the Phillips area stuff, but I don't think he'd be so supporting if it got in the way of the MMPT, since he seemed pretty hyped about that too. I bet what we'll see is that this new stuff won't actually interfere, or will do so minimally, with the planned station structures, and have room left below for platforms and such eventually.

I too hope the Clayton rail will be the kick that the MMPT needs to get built. Between that, possible South Fulton Commuter rail, possible Gwinnett Commuter rail, and all the state talk of regional transit, we could see something.... maybe.... at some point....

[tikigod311]

I doubt we will see an MMPT anytime soon. The rail from East Point to Downtown will be pretty expensive and relatively complex while they can easily terminate it at East Point. The final version should go to MMPT, but I don't think that is happening until there is more than a line to clayton in the works.

fourthwarden, another incredible map! Although the Memorial line is part of the current environmental study. With this unexpected potential source of funding, I wonder if they will forego the phases and go with whatever is part of the more detailed environmental studies. The in-progress environmental studies do not include other Phase 2 projects, such as the lines out to to the AUC or Grant Park. Gives me the impression they won't be following the phases laid out in the 2014 plan.

cq, considering the the expensive crossing with all the car and pedestrian gates and signals, synchronization with the series of nearby lights, the cost of putting some conduits under the road may not be that expensive relative to the alternative. This area has plenty of space to dig out a slight grade to dip under the road. This particular intersection is worth the investment, it's chaotic as is

[jsvh]

Let's talk fares.

So Denver is planning to double the size of its rail network this year from 48 miles to 100 miles. They also are implementing a zone payment system which will range from $2.60 up to $9 to the airport.

RTD Light Rail Map

How should the MARTA / Beltline / Streetcar fare structure work assuming this expansion? Should taking LRT from PCM to Bankhead still cost $1 like the streetcar does today while making the same trip by bus costs you $2.50? Should taking MARTA rail from North Springs to the Airport still cost the same $2.50 as taking a bus a few stops to the grocery store?

Is this expansion time to consider zone / distance fares? Or at least what should we do LRT fares?

My thoughts are that we need to get to a zone / distance based fare system. But It might be worth waiting another year or so to make sure that change doesn't complicate any system expansions into the suburbs.

In the meantime, I think the new LRT system should be brought into the same fare structure as the rest of MARTA. $2.50 with transfers and unlimited day / month passes shared on the entire system.

[fieldm]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Let's talk fares.

So Denver is planning to double the size of its rail network this year from 48 miles to 100 miles. They also are implementing a zone payment system which will range from $2.60 up to $9 to the airport.

RTD Light Rail Map

How should the MARTA / Beltline / Streetcar fare structure work assuming this expansion? Should taking LRT from PCM to Bankhead still cost $1 like the streetcar does today while making the same trip by bus costs you $2.50? Should taking MARTA rail from North Springs to the Airport still cost the same $2.50 as taking a bus a few stops to the grocery store?

Is this expansion time to consider zone / distance fares? Or at least what should we do LRT fares?

My thoughts are that we need to get to a zone / distance based fare system. But It might be worth waiting another year or so to make sure that change doesn't complicate any system expansions into the suburbs.

In the meantime, I think the new LRT system should be brought into the same fare structure as the rest of MARTA. $2.50 with transfers and unlimited day / month passes shared on the entire system.

No. Flat rate is better. Plus it will be harder to determine how much a monthly pass would be.

It's not like they would make a trip from Arts Center to North Ave 50 cents and a ride from North Springs to Airport at $2.50. They will probably have the Arts Center to North Ave ride at $1.75 and from North Springs to Airport at $9.

We don't want to become similar to the BART system in San Fran. They charged around $10 to go from San Fran airport to Oakland.

There are other ways that MARTA will bring in additional money and they are doing that now. Have a clean safe reliable system and more people will ride MARTA and it will expand into more areas. Clayton joined recently, we will expand in Atlanta soon and OTP will be next. There are plenty of other ways to bring in additional revenue besides changing to a pay zone system.

"He combined small moves with big ones, saving $250,000 by switching to electronic pay stubs, and $14 million by reducing the reliance on outside IT consultants. By mid-2013, the agency’s projected $33 million deficit had turned into a $9 million surplus, the first of three consecutive years in the black. - See more at: http://www.atlantamagazine.com/great....yyFeZhFp.dpuf" statement from an article. Plus MARTA has saved over $100 in the past 3 years so additional revenue is good but charging by distance is a bad idea.

Plus the OTP counties will probably not join if this happens because it will be cheaper for them to sit in traffic verses paying $13 to go one way from "Alpharetta" Marta Station to the airport. The idea of getting OTP counties to join is being able to ride from Lawrenceville/Alpharetta/Kennesaw to downtown/airport/etc for $2.50 verses pay $13/etc.

[jsvh]

fieldm - You are making a false assumption that zone or distance based fares means rising prices on the whole. MARTA should / will need to raise prices at some point regardless of the pricing system chosen.

We already basically have a zone system today with the $1 streetcar downtown and $2.50 for the rest of the system.

I am fine waiting to see how much traction expansion to the suburbs gets in 2017 but a flat fare is not sustainable for an expansive system stretching to the suburbs. Otherwise you are encouraging people to go to the suburbs and discouraging people to take shorter transit trips.

[fieldm]

Originally Posted by jsvh

fieldm - You are making a false assumption that zone or distance based fares means rising prices on the whole. MARTA should / will need to raise prices at some point regardless of the pricing system chosen.

We already basically have a zone system today with the $1 streetcar downtown and $2.50 for the rest of the system.

I am fine waiting to see how much traction expansion to the suburbs gets in 2017 but a flat fare is not sustainable for an expansive system stretching to the suburbs. Otherwise you are encouraging people to go to the suburbs and discouraging people to take shorter transit trips.

Nobody knows what it will cost so we are all assuming. But what I do know is that they probably would probably overall increase the fares for the overall passenger generally speaking verses making the cost cheaper. Plus the average person ITP probably has a monthly pass so they do not have to worry about paying $2.50 to go a couple of stops

As far as a system stretching in the suburbs those counties that join will have to pay for it themselves. They had a chance for Atlanta to help them with the cost with the previous bills but they turned it down.

It's not about always increasing the cost for everything to bring in revenue. Also increasing cost does not automatically make the system better. The METRO in DC is a great example of that (the silver line doesnt count because VA paid for that). They have the third best system but probably ranked last in how it is being ran.

The best way to bring in additional revenue is to have a great system. Having a great system will also increase the chances of other counties joining which would bring in plenty of revenue/etc.

It's not encouraging people to go to the suburbs. Generally MARTA is not much of a factor on people moving OTP because if that was the case nobody would live OTP and everyone would live ITP.