SunTrust Park (Atlanta, Marietta, Smyrna: car insurance, hotel, tenants)

[AnsleyPark]

You are on a roll today!

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by LTCM

To be honest, the entire STP complex is starting to look nice. Better than many people predicted. Can anyone truthfully say that the metro region isn't better off with a very nice STP complex than it was with Turner and it's problems? I get the COA bias, but shouldn't region support go both ways?

I have always said the the redevelopment they are doing next to STP is nice, better than just the surface parking lots next to Turner today. But no, that doesn't mean the Cobb-Braves deal is a win for Cobb, the region, or should be supported. It is still a loss for Cobb tax payers, a loss for Braves fans outside the NW suburbs, a loss for anyone that has to commute through that area, a loss for transportation connectivity options, and a loss for metro unity. Cobb of course will try to promote everything that happens there as the direct result of the Braves, but that is a falsehood. Cumberland would be getting a similar level of development without the Braves. Or much more if they had put those tax dollars towards something like transit. And the redevelopment that is happening to Turner Field area after the Braves leave make it clear that the problem was not that area.

Yes, I will say the metro region is better off without deals like this.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I have always said the the redevelopment they are doing next to STP is nice, better than just the surface parking lots next to Turner today. But no, that doesn't mean the Cobb-Braves deal is a win for Cobb, the region, or should be supported. It is still a loss for Cobb tax payers, a loss for Braves fans outside the NW suburbs, a loss for anyone that has to commute through that area, a loss for transportation connectivity options, and a loss for metro unity. Cobb of course will try to promote everything that happens there as the direct result of the Braves, but that is a falsehood. Cumberland would be getting a similar level of development without the Braves. Or much more if they had put those tax dollars towards something like transit. And the redevelopment that is happening to Turner Field area after the Braves leave make it clear that the problem was not that area.

Yes, I will say the metro region is better off without deals like this.

I hear ya, but let's wait and see.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

I hear ya, but let's wait and see.

What are we waiting to see? Because like many others, I will be avoiding that area and the Braves until then.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by jsvh

a loss for transportation connectivity options

Yeah, wow, that maybe a couple hundred people per baseball game (out of 45,000 or whatever) that were taking MARTA to Turner Field, which, in all these 20 years Atlanta or MARTA never even bothered to bring rail to. What a HUGE loss for transit there...

Let the record show that the Braves are moving from a car-oriented sea of surface parking lots in the city of Atlanta, to a dense, pedestrian oriented-surroundings in unincorporated Cobb County. Restaurants, retail, residential, hotels, offices all right there at the stadium, and you can walk across a pedestrian bridge or 2, to even more restaurants and retail and hotels and offices.

But I get it, all that's a loss for our urban goals, because it's in a county you don't like.

There was NO rail at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium, or Turner Field, and there NEVER will be. There is no rail at SunTrust Park, but there COULD be in the future. At least there's been grumblings and talk going on.

Yes, Turner Field was accessible by transit bus, pedestrians and bikes. Again, same is true of SunTrust Park.

a loss for metro unity

Says one of our regular posters here who is always singling out and bashing one particular side of the river over the other, to the point of irrationality. I mean, if you're for metro unity, perhaps quit going on constantly about how parts of the metro or worse or better than others? And here you're saying you're going to avoid parts of the metro on purpose... so by that basically you're promoting the very opposite of unity. Great.

I love Atlanta proper, and the suburbs too. It's never been an either/or question, to me. Even if north suburbs politics are definitely frustrating.

I have my gripes about Cobb, but I mean, I chose to live over here for a reason. It's a very nice place to live, and coupled with also being more affordable than the city.

I'm sorry, but Anti-Atlantism and Anti-Cobbism are both equally absurd. I'll continue to call that like I see it.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by primaltech

dense, pedestrian oriented-surroundings in unincorporated Cobb County

Was that intended to be satire?

Sure, past CoA leadership & the Braves did some terrible urban design to that area, but make no mistake that Turner Field is much better connected to the region than STP. They have much better transit options including being able less than a mile from multiple rail stations, connected to many more busses than STP, being more central to the region by car, and in the middle of a traditionally dense walkable street grid. And the Turner area has two light rail lines that get funded in November.

But yes, Cobb deserves to be shunned for their anti regionalism. "Bashing" Cobb for being anti-region does not make one anti-region. Just like being anti-Brexit & "bashing" the UK makes you pro-EU unity, not anti-EU. I'd love to see Cobb & the Braves change their ways, but until they do I will be taking the side of greater Atlanta.

[primaltech]

"Shunning" any parts of the region, is precisely anti-region and anti-metro unity. IMO you should start by living the attitude that you supposedly are wishing for.

DeKalb County is horribly corrupt, ineptly governed. City of Atlanta has a terrible school system. Cobb and Gwinnett counties have not joined MARTA like they should, which they have the legal option to do. These are all very legit gripes, but not reasons to "shun" or avoid any of these areas of the metro, or to obsess over any of them in a negative trolling way.

I'm not even being defensive because I moved out here earlier this year, but because I genuinely don't think Cobb deserves all this constant flak. Especially compared to all the years I spent living out in Gwinnett, Cobb is comparatively diverse and progressive and metropolitan. Has lots of high rise buildings, and has Downtown Marietta. Has Smyrna/Vinings/Cumberland, which millennials, singles, and young people actually genuinely want to live at (as opposed to Alpharetta.)

Kids these days don't give half a crap about MARTA, honestly. It's all about Uber. And Uber doesn't give any crap about county lines. So the main thing that supposedly disconnects Cobb from the region, is fast becoming obsolete anyway.

Atlanta is built around cars. MARTA could completely disappear from existence tonight, and we'd wake up tomorrow morning and everything would look and feel the same, and the traffic would be about the same. Maybe 1% or 2% worse? Not even noticeable. Most of MARTA's riders are people who don't have a car because they can't afford one. And MARTA doesn't go anywhere, anyway. There is no MARTA line across the top-end perimeter, so if Fulton didn't have MARTA, the traffic I'm going to face as always on 285 would be the same from my angle.

I'm pro-transit, and pro-MARTA, and I want all that to be successful. I'm pro-options, for sure. But I'm not buying into this idea of Cobb not being connected. The transportation system around this region is cars, predominantly, like 95% dominance or more- so, therefore Cobb is plenty damn connected. I'm just using pure logic, here.

[-thomass]

Prima, just curious, when was the last time you took marta? Try taking it during rush hour one of these days and you'd realize what you are saying is clearly false. And let's not ignore the fact that it connects the airport to downtown, enabling this city to attract high profile events and conventions.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by -thomass

Prima, just curious, when was the last time you took marta? Try taking it during rush hour one of these days and you'd realize what you are saying is clearly false. And let's not ignore the fact that it connects the airport to downtown, enabling this city to attract high profile events and conventions.

This past Saturday, unexpectedly. From Civic Center station (which until then I had never been inside), to Arts Center, then took the free Atlantic Station shuttle over to where I was parked at AS. Long story on how all that happened.

But why, or how exactly would I even take MARTA during rush hour? Even if I didn't work in Alpharetta. Let's say I worked at Peachtree Center. So I'd have to drive thru tons of traffic congestion, out of the way, over to Lindbergh or something? Why would I do all that, if driving directly to my destination is faster?

MARTA doesn't hardly go anywhere, even within the city. That's always been my gripe. There should be MARTA stations at Mt Paran Rd and West Paces Ferry which are in the city of Atlanta. I'd ride the train all the time if that were the case, since I just live right over the river. And the Green Line should go all the way to Bolton at the river. Is it Cobb County's fault that the Green Line has only ever had one single station on it?

I lived in N Fulton for 4 years (2 of those in ITP Sandy Springs), up until earlier this year. Rode MARTA dozens of times, every chance I had a legit reason to do so. But dozens of times in 4 years is not much.

Before that I lived in Gwinnett for a long time, and as far as MARTA access it was I guess a little better than Cobb because of Doraville station, but not really, since 90% of that county has to drive a long way to even get to Doraville station, for more than half the trip, which again really misses the entire point of a train.

I definitely don't deny that MARTA is good for getting tourists and visitors between the airport and Downtown, and has been historically very positive for Atlanta and is a great asset. But, I also think it sucks. I'm the biggest fan and the biggest advocate of MARTA and its expansion, but I also think it sucks horribly, as far as being useful as any kind of legit transportation in the Atlanta region. Just my thoughts on it, take or leave.

[-thomass]

That's fine. You live and work in suburbia, so you're not going to have much exposure to transit. And Marta does go straight through the city, so not really sure what you're getting at there. There are multiple stops in downtown, midtown and buckhead. All of us agree, however, that Marta is not the gold standard when it comes to assesibilty. But for thousands of people, including me, it does the job quite well. I take it everyday to get to work, never having to set foot in a car. I use it to get hawks games and, previously, braves games. I understand the complaints, and your case is a little different since you work in Alpharetta, but it's gets annoying when people criticize marta's assesibilty when they don't prioritize transit when picking a place to live.