MARTA News (Atlanta, Macon, East Point: transfer, cost of, estimates)

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by cranberrysaus

I believe DC's newer 7000-series trains are also limited to 4-car sets, so they can run either 4 or 8-car trains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washin...ck#7000-series They can run in 6-car sets.

I think if MARTA decides to run majority 4-car trains instead of the current 6, it won't be a huge difference. With open gangways, it'll be a lot easier for people to move around, such as from the typically fuller middle cars to the ends.

I guess you didn't ride when MARTA first went to the 10/12 minute headways and thought they could run the Red Line as 4-car trains. That was a nightmare and MARTA quickly relented. The open gangways won't add much capacity, especially with expanded ADA, bike, and luggage space in place of seating. I sincerely hope MARTA plans to run 8-car trains most of the day with the ability to drop to 4-car trains at night. That might be on advantage. MARTA can't easily drop from 4 to 6 cars for off-hours trains currently. In order to do that, a train has to pull in, then uncouple. That's not the hard part. The hard part is now you have a two-car train sitting there. So the next train, in order to drop to 4-cars would have to pull in, couple to the existing set, then the now 8-car train would have to be uncoupled in the middle. Running 4/8 would be simpler since there's one cut,and you immediately have two "usable" trainsets that can be immediately entered into service.

[cranberrysaus]

Originally Posted by MattCW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washin...ck#7000-series They can run in 6-car sets.

Interesting, I didn't realize the B-cars also had controls on them.

Originally Posted by MattCW

I guess you didn't ride when MARTA first went to the 10/12 minute headways and thought they could run the Red Line as 4-car trains. That was a nightmare and MARTA quickly relented. The open gangways won't add much capacity, especially with expanded ADA, bike, and luggage space in place of seating. I sincerely hope MARTA plans to run 8-car trains most of the day with the ability to drop to 4-car trains at night. That might be on advantage. MARTA can't easily drop from 4 to 6 cars for off-hours trains currently. In order to do that, a train has to pull in, then uncouple. That's not the hard part. The hard part is now you have a two-car train sitting there. So the next train, in order to drop to 4-cars would have to pull in, couple to the existing set, then the now 8-car train would have to be uncoupled in the middle. Running 4/8 would be simpler since there's one cut,and you immediately have two "usable" trainsets that can be immediately entered into service.

True. And I think MARTA probably will start running 8-car trains during the day. Being able to split into 4-car trains off-peak would be cool, though I'm not sure what kind of process that is to do it out in the field.

[LynnHarris1]

Should the buses come more frequently or should they serve more people? The agency hopes to answer these questions to make a more robust system.

Buses are the workhorses of transit—not as flashy as rail but just as impactful, if not more so. Every day, more than 400 MARTA buses shuttle more than 400,000 passengers across Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton counties. The vehicles play a key role in metro Atlanta’s overall transit network, yet they receive nowhere near as much attention from the public..."

https://www.atlantamagazine.com/news...to-carry-more/

SOURCE: Atlanta Magazine

[MattCW]

I think most of Jeff Parker's comments can be summed up as "duh!" This is stuff plenty of people have been saying FOR YEARS! Whether it's Arjay or Mine's "flood the zone with buses" or just saying the buses should be run much more frequently and not necessarily terminate at the rail stations, and most importantly, stick to the straight routes instead of meandering everywhere. All of this should have been done over twenty years ago. Instead we get insulting jokes like the "comprehensive operations analysis" that recommended a few minor route changes and schedule changes. What is particularly worrying is they're focused on the "400 buses" why can't we make that 500? or 1000? or 2000? Why is only using the same buses all that's on the table here?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MattCW

I think most of Jeff Parker's comments can be summed up as "duh!" This is stuff plenty of people have been saying FOR YEARS! Whether it's Arjay or Mine's "flood the zone with buses" or just saying the buses should be run much more frequently and not necessarily terminate at the rail stations, and most importantly, stick to the straight routes instead of meandering everywhere. All of this should have been done over twenty years ago. Instead we get insulting jokes like the "comprehensive operations analysis" that recommended a few minor route changes and schedule changes. What is particularly worrying is they're focused on the "400 buses" why can't we make that 500? or 1000? or 2000? Why is only using the same buses all that's on the table here?

Absolutely, Matt!!!

And do it, like, yesterday!

[primaltech]

Honestly, eliminate all bus routes and bus stops, and replace them with bus lines and bus stations. With much fewer of each, and much higher quality, with all the stations being permanent and sheltered and named, and at least as nice as the streetcar stations. (And the bus always stops at every station on the line, like a train line). And put the lines and the stations on the official MARTA map, so that to somebody visiting Atlanta and looking at the map for the first time, the system actually looks like more than a simple plus sign that hardly goes anywhere. Make the bus lines thinner lines on the map, with smaller dots and fonts for the stations, but still all on there.

So for example. You're on the train originating from North Springs, and you travel to Buckhead station (Peachtree Rd @ 400). There you transfer to the Peachtree Line bus, which comes very frequently, and there's a digital display indicating approximately when the next southbound or northbound bus arrives. You jump on the southbound, and the automated voice announces, "Next stop, Piedmont @ Peachtree station, transfer to Piedmont Line". Then after that, Buckhead Village station. One station for that whole area, not multiple stops street after street. And the fare is paid for at the kiosk there, not on the bus.

Then the next station is Rumson Rd, half a mile down. Then a handful more, down thru Brookwood. Until it's like "Next stop, Arts Center. Transfer to Red and Gold lines". But the bus part of the station is at the corner of 16th St and Peachtree, with clear signage and walkway to the train part of the station for transfer. Then the bus can just keep going, without all the delay of turning off the main road and looping around and such. Then the next station is at 14th St, "Exit here for Piedmont Park". Then the next is Midtown Station, transfer to Red, Gold, and 10th Street lines.

Etc etc. Focus on corridors, like Ponce, Northside, Briarcliff, Clairmont, could all be similar lines on the map, showing all this transit connectivity. And you don't need all these constant stops. Just key stations, and people can walk a couple blocks to their destinations. Like the Briarcliff Line would stop at N Druid Hills Rd, and then Lavista Rd, and then Clifton Rd.

People would ride the heck out of a system like that. I definitely would when I'm in town.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Honestly, eliminate all bus routes and bus stops, and replace them with bus lines and bus stations. With much fewer of each, and much higher quality, with all the stations being permanent and sheltered and named, and at least as nice as the streetcar stations. (And the bus always stops at every station on the line, like a train line). And put the lines and the stations on the official MARTA map, so that to somebody visiting Atlanta and looking at the map for the first time, the system actually looks like more than a simple plus sign that hardly goes anywhere. Make the bus lines thinner lines on the map, with smaller dots and fonts for the stations, but still all on there.

So for example. You're on the train originating from North Springs, and you travel to Buckhead station (Peachtree Rd @ 400). There you transfer to the Peachtree Line bus, which comes very frequently, and there's a digital display indicating approximately when the next southbound or northbound bus arrives. You jump on the southbound, and the automated voice announces, "Next stop, Piedmont @ Peachtree station, transfer to Piedmont Line". Then after that, Buckhead Village station. One station for that whole area, not multiple stops street after street. And the fare is paid for at the kiosk there, not on the bus.

Then the next station is Rumson Rd, half a mile down. Then a handful more, down thru Brookwood. Until it's like "Next stop, Arts Center. Transfer to Red and Gold lines". But the bus part of the station is at the corner of 16th St and Peachtree, with clear signage and walkway to the train part of the station for transfer. Then the bus can just keep going, without all the delay of turning off the main road and looping around and such. Then the next station is at 14th St, "Exit here for Piedmont Park". Then the next is Midtown Station, transfer to Red, Gold, and 10th Street lines.

Etc etc. Focus on corridors, like Ponce, Northside, Briarcliff, Clairmont, could all be similar lines on the map, showing all this transit connectivity. And you don't need all these constant stops. Just key stations, and people can walk a couple blocks to their destinations. Like the Briarcliff Line would stop at N Druid Hills Rd, and then Lavista Rd, and then Clifton Rd.

People would ride the heck out of a system like that. I definitely would when I'm in town.

You forgot dedicated lanes. Without them the whole plan is useless.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by Gulch

You forgot dedicated lanes. Without them the whole plan is useless.

And yeah, dedicated lanes, which you can do on main corridors with more than one lane per direction. And traffic signal priority for buses. And, ideally, put the stations in the median of the street, with safe red colored crosswalks to either side, and just a greatly improved overall pedestrian experience and rider experience.

Also, articulated (bendy) buses, for higher capacity. And frequent buses. And all the app integration/tech. You should be able to see the bus coming on your phone, and on the ETA digital signage at the bus station.

In general, up the quality of everything to 100, sacrifice the quantity of routes (lines). Then once it's a huge success, increase the funding, voters will pass the funding, and then you increase the number of lines.

[arjay57]

I am okay with the suggestions of Gulch and primaltech. Let's get on with it.

[CCATL]

The last rendition of the bus overhaul was pure crap. I often took the bus - at one point, it came every 15 minutes, and shuttled up to a rail station for greater connectivity. Then, they moved it to every 20 minutes - ok, not great, but not the end of the world. Then with the recent overhaul and the smaller community buses, they changed it to every 30 minutes. I tried to keep taking the bus, but every 30 minutes was just not doable. On the way to work, I'd have to time it just right, but oftentimes it was 5 minutes too early for me to be able to make it to the bus stop. On the way home, I'd often just miss the connection from MARTA rail, and I'd be stuck standing there for at least 30 minutes (it wasn't always on time) waiting for the next bus. It was ridiculous, and I couldn't do it anymore. I started taking Uber on the days that I would have taken the bus, because the extra money was worth it for my time and being able to arrive at work/arrive home on time.

I say all this to say that frequency is extremely important. Every 15 minutes is great, less time would be better. But I think every 15 minutes is really a cap - anymore than that, and missing the bus or a connection can put a major wrench in timelines for busy people who have to be places. 30 minutes intervals mean MARTA is losing choice riders, and those without a choice have to be very cautious about planning out their day to get to work, pick up the kids, etc. etc.