State Budget- 4 Day School Week?? (Kennesaw, Decatur: unemployment, construction, schools)

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by noah

The poster who said that is FROM Canada and if I recall has family there.

Not true. This is awkward.

I'm the poster from Canada, and what I posted was that I hope Georgia education budget cutting does not become so drastic that I feel forced to consider sending my teen to finish her high school and enter university in Canada.

Another poster then made a comment comparing Canada and the US, which sparked an exchange of posts with a third poster. I was avoiding Canada-US comparisons on this thread, myself.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

Not true. This is awkward.

I'm the poster from Canada, and what I posted was that I hope Georgia education budget cutting does not become so drastic that I feel forced to consider sending my teen to finish her high school and enter university in Canada.

Another poster then made a comment comparing Canada and the US, which sparked an exchange of posts with a third poster. I was avoiding Canada-US comparisons on this thread, myself.

I'm the "third poster" being referenced, and yes, to me comparisons between the US and Canada, or European countries are silly. A country of 33 million people with a fairly socialist tradition and very high taxes is much different that the US with 10x the population and a much different social and tax policy.

There is a lot of lamenting that Georgia isn't like Canada or other more liberal leaning tax and spend states here in the US (many of whom incidentally are also cutting and facing budget deficits despite high taxes), so I'm merely pointing out that it's quite easy to put your money and moving van where your mouth (or keyboard) is. I did that and left Massachusetts because I didn't like the tax and social policy being pushed on the citizens of the state, and as has been discussed many times, the education system there is not better on average....only at the high end of the social/economic scale.

Sorry if that offends people.

[RainyRainyDay]

Getting back to the thread topic, Neil, as an anti-tax-and-spender, is there any point at which you'd approve a tax increase rather than slashing budgets in the public schools? We both send our children to Cobb County public schools. Suppose the school district bumped class sizes and eliminated elementary school gifted programs, middle school music and art, some arts, honors and AP course offerings in high schools, and cut back services to students with learning disabilities? Would that be A-OK?

There's a letter in today's AJC that I think is not meant ironically, that says "With thousands of police officers, firefighters, teachers and others questioning their career choices, we march happily to the tune of 'smaller government, lower taxes.' One more stab at the dying beast ought to do it." It seems there's a strong contingent of Georgians who look forward to the elimination of all public services. Is there a place here for people who don't feel this way, or should we all be packing moving vans?

[MisterNY]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

Going to Canada sounds like a pretty good choice right about now. At least that society HAS a commitment to helping each other out. If only the winters up there weren't so cold.

I hear ya. If it weren't for the cold, most would be up there.

Originally Posted by neil0311

Just saying...you're the one who made the point that Canada is the solution and better than your country. If I felt that way, I'd be packing my bags and heading to the great white north. Whatever.

Taking things to heart today, aren't we?

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

Getting back to the thread topic, Neil, as an anti-tax-and-spender, is there any point at which you'd approve a tax increase rather than slashing budgets in the public schools? We both send our children to Cobb County public schools. Suppose the school district bumped class sizes and eliminated elementary school gifted programs, middle school music and art, some arts, honors and AP course offerings in high schools, and cut back services to students with learning disabilities? Would that be A-OK?

There's a letter in today's AJC that I think is not meant ironically, that says "With thousands of police officers, firefighters, teachers and others questioning their career choices, we march happily to the tune of 'smaller government, lower taxes.' One more stab at the dying beast ought to do it." It seems there's a strong contingent of Georgians who look forward to the elimination of all public services. Is there a place here for people who don't feel this way, or should we all be packing moving vans?

I'm not an "anti-tax and spender" but I am against attitudes that exist in some states and now in the federal government that someone has deep packets and we'll just keep digging into the piggybank as needed. I think for the most part GA recognizes that tax money is earned by citizens and paid to government, not created by government to support the populace.

Your premise is that the money currently spent is spent wisely and more money automatically equals better performance, and therefore it's a zero sum game. I disagree.

How is it that states like New Hampshire get along just fine with no income tax and no sales tax? We already pay a 1 cent SPLOST in Cobb for capital costs related to schools, something which doesn't exist in many states.

So if we raise taxes, which taxes get raised and where do they get allocated? Since most school funding comes from local county and city property taxes, and home values have decreased along with the owners' net worth, do we jack up property taxes? How many people on the edge of foreclosure can afford that extra tax? Do we increase sales tax? Income tax? How much?

Why is it that as populations increase, the tax burden also seems to increase? Is it because a growing percentage of our population pays little to no tax and many are a net drain on the system? Why was tax in GA so much lower 20 years ago when I lived here?

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by neil0311

I'm not an "anti-tax and spender" but I am against attitudes that exist in some states and now in the federal government that someone has deep packets and we'll just keep digging into the piggybank as needed. I think for the most part GA recognizes that tax money is earned by citizens and paid to government, not created by government to support the populace.

Your premise is that the money currently spent is spent wisely and more money automatically equals better performance, and therefore it's a zero sum game. I disagree.

How is it that states like New Hampshire get along just fine with no income tax and no sales tax? We already pay a 1 cent SPLOST in Cobb for capital costs related to schools, something which doesn't exist in many states.

So if we raise taxes, which taxes get raised and where do they get allocated? Since most school funding comes from local county and city property taxes, and home values have decreased along with the owners' net worth, do we jack up property taxes? How many people on the edge of foreclosure can afford that extra tax? Do we increase sales tax? Income tax? How much?

Why is it that as populations increase, the tax burden also seems to increase? Is it because a growing percentage of our population pays little to no tax and many are a net drain on the system? Why was tax in GA so much lower 20 years ago when I lived here?

This thread seems to work on the premise that these taxes are spent efficiently, that the teacher's union is working in the best interest of the taxpayers and the children that the system is charged with educating, and that the average school system is not bloated with administrative bureaucracy.
Frankly, I found no option in the poll that I found acceptable...so I didn't vote.
BTW, +1 for you, neil.

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

This thread seems to work on the premise that these taxes are spent efficiently, that the teacher's union is working in the best interest of the taxpayers and the children that the system is charged with educating, and that the average school system is not bloated with administrative bureaucracy.
Frankly, I found no option in the poll that I found acceptable...so I didn't vote.
BTW, +1 for you, neil.

So, LD and Neil, are you saying that Georgia school systems have plenty of room to absorb significant budget reductions without reducing the quality of services to students at all?

If that's true, how do we get from here to there?

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

My high school sophomore is in the top 3% of her class and has been hoping to study at Georgia Tech. I'm starting to wonder if we're going to have to send her back to Canada to stay with grandparents in order for her to finish her high school education and be eligible for in-state (or in-province) tuition at a decent high school and university that aren't devastated by enormous budget cuts. Hoping this is an over-reaction but worrying it might not be....!

There are areas of the United States which aren't having their education systems devastated at quite the same rate as we seem to be seeing here in Georgia.

No need to go to Canada ... just move to a state where education seems to be more of a general priority. And no, I'm not naming names, but you can make an educated guess about the places I'm talking about, I'm sure.

[MovedfromFL]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

There are areas of the United States which aren't having their education systems devastated at quite the same rate as we seem to be seeing here in Georgia.

No need to go to Canada ... just move to a state where education seems to be more of a general priority. And no, I'm not naming names, but you can make an educated guess about the places I'm talking about, I'm sure.

Exactly. The budget of GA is being balanced on the back of education, K-College. Did you see the article about the student who is almost finished with a specialized nursing program, makes all "A"s in college, has a job lined up, and already owes $60,000 for her degree, but now the entire program is on the chopping block? Her education could be blocked very close to graduation. Of course, her job would fall through and since the program is so specialized, she would have to go out of GA to finish at another school.

Everyone loves to blame the "overpaid" and "union" teachers here but the truth is teachers have NO union rights here (at least not in my county). Don't be fooled by the hype. This is not NJ where teachers have it made in the shade. This is GA where teachers are jerked around like pawns these days. Many teachers are making a lot less this year than they did last year. This coming year will be a total disaster because our legislature is pulling the stimulus money into this year when it is supposed to get us through next year!

Education is the whipping boy of GA and that speaks volumes about our priorities here.

As for me, I am out of this state at the end of May, even if I have to give my house away.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by MovedfromFL

Everyone loves to blame the "overpaid" and "union" teachers here but the truth is teachers have NO union rights here (at least not in my county). Don't be fooled by the hype. This is not NJ where teachers have it made in the shade. This is GA where teachers are jerked around like pawns these days. Many teachers are making a lot less this year than they did last year.

And in many fields, people are making zero, due to extensive layoffs and job slashing in many industries. Not that it's the ideal situation, but would you rather be asked to take 6 furlough days, or be told that your services won't be needed any longer?

And please don't bring up the teachers in NJ as if they're something we should strive to have here. As someone who lived in NJ for many years, I can tell you that the teachers there have it well beyond "made in the shade", with pensions, healthcare programs, etc., that the rest of the world in private industry can only dream of ever getting. BTW- NJ is currently billions in the hole- largely due to public employee union costs- and will soon be implementing some pretty tough cuts of their own.