An Open Source Airplane Could Cost Just $15,000 (commercial)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Well you buy a boat and you can have fun from the get go. No need to drop another $8-$10 grand on a license. Annual inspections that could set you back thousands of dollars. Etc.

I'd think a Sport license would be considerably cheaper. And if you build your own the annual condition inspections cost nothing if no parts are required.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Plus I'd be curious what you'd classify as a decent aircraft. Most training aircraft are relatively cheap these days ($20k-$40k) but lack a serious ability to actually get a family from A->B.

I'm talking recreation here, not transportation. All I'm saying is if someone has the burning desire to fly they'll find a way. Personally, i'd rather fly an Ercoupe with the 'top' down for a $100 hamburger than buzz up and down the river in a boat sucking gas. I can tie-down at a local airport for $30/mo, a slip in a marina is considerably more $$$.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

To sit 4 comfortably + luggage + gas + go places you're looking at a 6 place retract like a Bonanza or Saratoga,, Mooneys would be good for a two person getaway, they are fast but are cramped. Priced any of those out? Don't forget an instrument rating to actually get to places reliably.

Again, recreation, not transportation. Not much difference spending $25K on a new motorcycle to take 2 people somewhere than spending $25K on an airplane to take 2 people somewhere.

I'm speaking from observation, I've heard people say Gee, I wish I could afford to fly who had enough $$$ worth of chrome on their Harley to pay for a Sport Pilot license. Sure people aren't flying but judging by other forms of recreation and how much disposable $$$ I see spent on them, I just don't believe cost is the primary factor.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

There's a big perception issue with airplanes, especially older ones. My step father really loves aviation, but freaks out at the idea of "old airplanes" and like someone else on a board recently, his thought is "old airplane = old car" so, he'd expect mechanical break downs, setbacks, and a generally unreliable experience.

When I started college in 01' we had "new" 99' 172R's, when I graduated in 05' I can remember talking to him abut a flight I had recently made. The conversation went like this:

SD: What airplane did you fly?
Me: One of the skyhawks.
SD: One of the old ones?
Me: No, one of our new skyhawks.
SD: You guys got new skyhawks?
Me: Well, the ones we had when I started in 01'.
SD: Ah, so the old ones.
Me: Yeh, but they're "new" in aviation terms.

Heck, I've had some seat time in a '46 Ercoupe I enjoyed quite a lot. I'm in no great hurry to get anywhere, simply enjoy the perspective viewed from an airplane.

[GregW]

I liked the view I got during flying more then the actual flying. That, and the expense, is why I dropped the hobby.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by GregW

I liked the view I got during flying more then the actual flying. That, and the expense, is why I dropped the hobby.

Yeah, flying's never been cheap, I'm lucky I got my long lapsed Private in the mid '70s. I don't know exactly how yet but I'm determined to spend my old age doing some more flying, if it does nothing but keep me from the golf course it's worth doing. One of the funnest things I've done in a while was fly into Kitty Hawk with someone in their amateur built aircraft

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by burdell

Displacement is good but Porsche engines generally make their power at higher RPMs of little benefit in an airplane without the added expense/complexity of a reduction drive.

Just figured Mooney did it, why not the common man? LOL

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by burdell

I'd think a Sport license would be considerably cheaper. And if you build your own the annual condition inspections cost nothing if no parts are required.

<snip>


Again, recreation, not transportation. Not much difference spending $25K on a new motorcycle to take 2 people somewhere than spending $25K on an airplane to take 2 people somewhere.

Again, recreation, not transportation. Not much difference spending $25K on a new motorcycle to take 2 people somewhere than spending $25K on an airplane to take 2 people somewhere.

I'm speaking from observation, I've heard people say Gee, I wish I could afford to fly who had enough $$$ worth of chrome on their Harley to pay for a Sport Pilot license. Sure people aren't flying but judging by other forms of recreation and how much disposable $$$ I see spent on them, I just don't believe cost is the primary factor.

Ok you got me. Buying a kit to build your own airplane, spending years doing it, and obtaining the required certificates to do so is no different than going to your local Bayliner or Harley dealer and walking out with a new toy an hour later.

[WyoNewk]

If you can build it yourself with wood, glue, fabric and resin from the lumber yard, there wouldn't be much expense outside the engine, etc. I was active in EAA for many years and helped friends built planes. We even had a club project that never got finished, but we built the wing structures from my own scrap lumber -- pine shoe racks from my shoe store. We had to be picky about what wood we used, but that was pretty easy to do just by looking at the grain.

A good friend of mine built a fabulous little fiberglass 2-seater of his own design with retractable gear for well under $10K plus avionics (mostly engine cost). It had a small Continental (65hp?) and huge wet wings, would cruise at 160mph and had the fuel capacity to fly from California to Hawaii. He built it with the intention of flying around the world with his wife, but his health prevented that, and his wife wasn't up to the task of flying it with its sensitive controls. When he was near death he talked to me about buying it for $20-25K, but after he passed his wife wanted their daughter to have it. She was the main pilot for it before his death, and it was appropriate that she have the plane her dad built, even though he didn't really trust her with it.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Ok you got me. Buying a kit to build your own airplane, spending years doing it, and obtaining the required certificates to do so is no different than going to your local Bayliner or Harley dealer and walking out with a new toy an hour later.

Never said it "is no different" now, did I? Only that those who want to fly find ways whose costs are in line with other forms of recreation.

For I thing, "spending years doing it, and obtaining the required certificates to do so " takes something more than any schlub with a credit card. You can buy a music CD anywhere, do you think it's remotely as satisfying as learning to play an instrument and make music?

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by burdell

Never said it "is no different" now, did I? Only that those who want to fly find ways whose costs are in line with other forms of recreation.

For I thing, "spending years doing it, and obtaining the required certificates to do so " takes something more than any schlub with a credit card. You can buy a music CD anywhere, do you think it's remotely as satisfying as learning to play an instrument and make music?

When I want to do something fun I go out and do it, I don't want to wait years to be able to do so. How many people build their own boats? A random few. Your comparison is horrid.

[irman]

Originally Posted by burdell

And this proposal being an LSA, you have a 1320# gross to play with.

We wanted to prove that anyone could built something that can fly safely for *recreational* purposes, in his garage with a minimal amount of tools.
So we went FAR 103. (We do not need no stinkin badge carrying FSDO guy ...)

We did it, but as I stated, it took a lot of hours of calculations and simulations (we are Professional Engineers with over 40 years of aerospace experience each, under our belts, and are licensed pilots).

After we did that, anyone knows that we then started to think :
*Maybe we should do it this way or that way.*

Today, that single seater FAR 103 complaint flying contraption, has turned into a full fledged two-seater with an AW cert and N-Number. We did keep meticulous records, but we have absolutely NO plans to commercialise it !
(When the weight of 254 lbs max was exceeded, we mumbled *Oh well* and kept on going)

Somebody mentioned a motorcycle as a means of *transportation*
What we did can be compared to an ATV.
Recreation vs. Transportation.