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Old 05-30-2017, 07:47 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,161 posts, read 15,638,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Randal Walker View Post
An implication being that there will be nothing comparable to the A1 or the A10 for close air support.

Another implication is that helicopters will become more constrained in their usefulness.

The A 10 was not really supposed to be a CAS aircraft originally either. It was designed as an armor buster. The A1 was designed and intended for a CAS role. Helicopters have been pretty critical in ground support since Viet Nam, and are about our best aircraft for the job right now. If the military (primarily the Army) is looking for a fixed wing CAS plane, I believe it was mentioned earlier it had better be VERY cost effective. All the money is going into the F35. Which is a huge waste IMHO.


Do we really need to be getting so complicated and maintenance intensive? It seems for every F35 or 22 that actually flies four or more are grounded. All that high tech snazziness don't mean a thing if the plane can't fly.
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:59 AM
 
28,679 posts, read 18,806,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
The A 10 was not really supposed to be a CAS aircraft originally either. It was designed as an armor buster. .
Is there a real distinction?
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:25 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,161 posts, read 15,638,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Is there a real distinction?

Well, in a way yes. Taking out advancing enemy armor does certainly support a ground force. But the A 10 is at a bit of a disadvantage when that support role turns anti personnel. It's gun doesn't really carry that much ammunition (and the whole plane is that gun) It can use missiles and rockets I suppose as well in an anti personnel function. ISIS does have armor in the field now, so the A 10 can still do it's primary job in the ME, but it's designed more with a conflict like NK or Europe in mind.


In support of advancing infantry who aren't contending with any armor or assault vehicles that infantry would probably be better supported by Cobras and Apaches. Meh, I guess I'm nit picking. A 10s could flatten structures the enemy is using for cover as easily as a tank. It's been stepping outside it's originally designed purpose quite well for quite a while now.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:59 AM
 
2,639 posts, read 1,996,069 times
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Default book, copyright 2015

Hunter Killer Inside America's Unmanned Air War by Lt. Col. T. Mark McCurley.

Written by a Predator pilot, much of book is about the use of drones for air cover in Iraq/Afghanistan.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:02 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 1,996,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
The A 10 was not really supposed to be a CAS aircraft originally either. It was designed as an armor buster. The A1 was designed and intended for a CAS role..
According to wikipedia, the A-1 was designed as a dive/torpedo bomber. It turned out that the plane excelled in the CAS role. With the A-1 gone, I believe that the A-1 was the next best thing.
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
7,588 posts, read 6,633,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Well, in a way yes. Taking out advancing enemy armor does certainly support a ground force. But the A 10 is at a bit of a disadvantage when that support role turns anti personnel. It's gun doesn't really carry that much ammunition (and the whole plane is that gun) It can use missiles and rockets I suppose as well in an anti personnel function. ISIS does have armor in the field now, so the A 10 can still do it's primary job in the ME, but it's designed more with a conflict like NK or Europe in mind.


In support of advancing infantry who aren't contending with any armor or assault vehicles that infantry would probably be better supported by Cobras and Apaches. Meh, I guess I'm nit picking. A 10s could flatten structures the enemy is using for cover as easily as a tank. It's been stepping outside it's originally designed purpose quite well for quite a while now.
Sure, but if the infantry are well-dispersed, the A-10's effectiveness may be quite limited.
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:47 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 1,996,069 times
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McCurley indicated that initially, the Predator program was a low prestige dead end to one's career. He was one of the few volunteers, and was warned that he was risking his career. It seems that most of the (early) pilots were failed fighter jocks, "deadwood" who were dumped into the Predator program.

The Predator pilots began saving the lives of troops in firefights. McCurley told of visiting a marine base, and when they found out that he was a Predator pilot, he suddenly became very popular, with the marines buying him beers.

The Predator guys had prestige in the eyes of the marines.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:37 PM
 
28,679 posts, read 18,806,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
Sure, but if the infantry are well-dispersed, the A-10's effectiveness may be quite limited.
NVPlumber had said:

Quote:
In support of advancing infantry who aren't contending with any armor or assault vehicles that infantry would probably be better supported by Cobras and Apaches. Meh, I guess I'm nit picking. A 10s could flatten structures the enemy is using for cover as easily as a tank. It's been stepping outside it's originally designed purpose quite well for quite a while now.
So I don't see how your response applies.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,582,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Do we really need to be getting so complicated and maintenance intensive? It seems for every F35 or 22 that actually flies four or more are grounded. All that high tech snazziness don't mean a thing if the plane can't fly.
They've actually turned the corner with F-35, the squadron stationed in Japan has readiness rates comparable with other aircraft and have had high sortie availability rate in Red Flag and Green Flag exercises.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:53 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,161 posts, read 15,638,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
They've actually turned the corner with F-35, the squadron stationed in Japan has readiness rates comparable with other aircraft and have had high sortie availability rate in Red Flag and Green Flag exercises.

Still, it's terribly expensive, and I don't see the Air Force being to hyped up about committing F 35s to a CAS role. Putting it's latest high tech and seriously expensive plane down in the weeds just doesn't seem like something that would go over well. Not when they still have the A 10. Still, in both the Navy and the Air Force adapting to an air to ground role has been the primary mission of late. Aircraft in actual fighter interceptor primary missions are the guys playing chicken with the Russians up in Alaska and out at sea when the Russians feel froggy and try to buzz a carrier group.
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