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The F-35s putting up the gaudy kill ratios in Red Flag can carry four internal AMRAAMs. The software update 3F that expands the weapon loadout to full warfighting is currently undergoing testing, significant additions including SDB and AIM-9x. I think it's supposed to release later this year.
There aren't a lot of details on how exactly F-35 is getting all those kills in exercises but there has been comments by opposing pilots that they just can't find it or see it coming so either end up dead or in an extremely disadvantageous defensive position right off the bat. That Norwegian F-35 pilot who blogs has made of references to the high AoA and powerful engine causing F-35 to stick to opponents like glue in a dog fight.
It's tough to kill that which you can't see.
When I flew against the F-22 it was the same thing. We even had an advantage with GCI telling us where they were since they were squawking (transponders on). But never saw them. Our four-ship comm went something like this:
GCI: "Viper 1, two groups range 10 (nautical miles), 36,000 (feet), head (pointing at us)"
V 1 (me): "Viper 1, ahhhh, clean" (Clean = nothing visible on the radar)
V 3: "Viper 3, clean high"
A few seconds later...
V 1: "Does ANYONE see them? Bueller? Bueller?" (That second part is embellishment)
V 2: "Viper 2 clean"
V 3: "Viper 3 clean"
V 4: "Viper 4 clean"
V 1: "Viper 1, bogey dope" (Bogey dope = a request for another radar position check)
GCI: "Viper 1, 2 groups range 8, 36,000, lead group now turning cold, trail group hot"
A few seconds later...
GCI: "New picture, two groups azimuth 8, drag east" (now they're line abreast and flying away)
V 1: "Uh oh" - wouldn't say that on the radio, but was definitely thinking it.
A minute later...
GCI: "Viper 1, Raptor flight calls kills north and south leader, north trailer"
V 1: "Viper 1, kill acknowledged, 1, 2 and 4 out west, dead..." in a frustrated voice
Last edited by SluggoF16; 06-12-2017 at 09:29 AM..
When I flew against the F-22 it was the same thing. We even had an advantage with GCI telling us where they were since they were squawking (transponders on). But never saw them. Our four-ship comm went something like this:
GCI: "Viper 1, two groups range 10 (nautical miles), 36,000 (feet), head (pointing at us)"
V 1 (me): "Viper 1, ahhhh, clean" (Clean = nothing visible on the radar)
V 3: "Viper 3, clean high"
A few seconds later...
V 1: "Does ANYONE see them? Bueller? Bueller?" (That second part is embellishment)
V 2: "Viper 2 clean"
V 3: "Viper 3 clean"
V 4: "Viper 4 clean"
V 1: "Viper 1, bogey dope" (Bogey dope = a request for another radar position check)
GCI: "Viper 1, 2 groups range 8, 36,000, lead group now turning cold, trail group hot"
A few seconds later...
GCI: "New picture, two groups azimuth 8, drag east" (now they're line abreast and flying away)
V 1: "Uh oh" - wouldn't say that on the radio, but was definitely thinking it.
A minute later...
GCI: "Viper 1, Raptor flight calls kills north and south leader, north trailer"
V 1: "Viper 1, kill acknowledged, 1, 2 and 4 out west, dead..." in a frustrated voice
eagle drivers had similar frustrations when going up against raptors. the raptor could be outnumbered by at least 5-1, and still kill all five eagles and slip away without the eagle driers knowing they were ever there, except for eagles going down in "flames".
the thing that makes the F22's and F35's truly deadly, after the stealth capability, is the data link. the lead aircraft can turn everything off, including their radar, and data link with either a decoy stealth of the AWACs, lock on target, and fire long before the enemy aircraft knows they are in firing range of the stealth planes.
and things will only get worse for the enemy if the air force decides to build the B1 arsenal planes. let the F22s select the targets, lock them on, ans send the data back to the B1s and they let the missiles fly without the raptors ever being seen on radar. only hundreds of missiles heading towards the enemy formation from B1s turning away and egressing to safety.
eagle drivers had similar frustrations when going up against raptors. the raptor could be outnumbered by at least 5-1, and still kill all five eagles and slip away without the eagle driers knowing they were ever there, except for eagles going down in "flames".
the thing that makes the F22's and F35's truly deadly, after the stealth capability, is the data link. the lead aircraft can turn everything off, including their radar, and data link with either a decoy stealth of the AWACs, lock on target, and fire long before the enemy aircraft knows they are in firing range of the stealth planes.
and things will only get worse for the enemy if the air force decides to build the B1 arsenal planes. let the F22s select the targets, lock them on, ans send the data back to the B1s and they let the missiles fly without the raptors ever being seen on radar. only hundreds of missiles heading towards the enemy formation from B1s turning away and egressing to safety.
But who gets credit for the kill? (I've debated that at the bar before regarding D-link kills. No one has the answer... the pilot who targets the adversary, or the pilot/WSO/EWO/OSO who presses the button?)
But who gets credit for the kill? (I've debated that at the bar before regarding D-link kills. No one has the answer... the pilot who targets the adversary, or the pilot/WSO/EWO/OSO who presses the button?)
that is an excellent question, why not split the credit? these days pretty much everything is a team effort anymore, even in air to air combat.
Eagle drivers used to be on the 'giving' end of these situations. With the advanced ECCM and air to air interogators they could sort out who was who without actually turning the radar on. This was back in the 70s before fancy datalinks and stealth were common
This talk of 30 year old weapons not being able to compete reminds me of sitting in my M60A1 with a platoon trying to hide and pull an ambush when the other battalions in my division had already reequipped with the M1's with their speed and thermal sights. We joked to ourselves that we were dinosaurs while they were Jedis
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