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Compare Duncan to Magic and several others and you'll see similar results.
Peak Magic was better than Peak Duncan. Magic had a ridiculous run from 1986-1989 where he dazzled the League. In 1988, he won his team 16.1 games with a WS/48 of .267. The only thing that stopped him from winning the MVP that season was even more ridiculous play from this guy named Michael Jordan who won his team 21.2 games with a WS/48 of .308. Jordan wrecked what would have been four consecutive MVPs.
Magic and Michael's advanced stats definitely live up to the hype of their legend. I'd say the same about Bird but to a lesser extent. Isiah, not so much.
It's interesting that Moses Malone is often left out of the discussion when talking about the 80s greats. It's usually just Magic, Michael, Larry and Isiah.
It sparked your comment, so my comment can't be too off base.
Yes it did.
1 title. 3 years solid production (coming from a guy that played four years of college basketball) 3 years of All-Star Production, and a SuperStar Top-10esqu year this season. I stand by my comment.
I'm waiting for ANY argument that he belongs Top 10 RIGHT NOW.
1 Micheal Jordan
2 Magic Johnson
3 Kareem
4 Larry Bird
5 Wilt
6 Kobe
7 Russell
8 Olajuwon
9 Shaq
10 Duncan
Lmao so you found some random fan voting site where you can click away and move people up and down?
Straws are just out of reach aren't they.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
And just for the record.
Win Shares
Duncan - 204.8
Bird - 145.8
Win Shares Per 48
Duncan - .210
Bird - .203
Peak Win Shares Per 48
Duncan - .257 (01-02)
Bird - .244 (85-86)
Peak Offensive Win Shares
Duncan - 10.7 (01-02)
Bird - 10.5 (84-85)
Peak Value Over Replacement
Bird - 8.7 (85-86)
Duncan - 8.1 (01-02)
Player Efficiency Rating
Duncan - 24.3
Bird - 23.5
Duncan beats out Bird by most advanced metrics despite having had many more seasons to deteriorate. The "rings" argument can't apply here because Duncan has 5 to Larry's 3. Bird does have more MVPs but I don't think that really matters. Duncan's peak was just as good if not better and his career has spanned three decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Compare Duncan to Magic and several others and you'll see similar results.
Duncan really does have *it all* just like Kobe, Jordan, Kareem....
They have career totals.
Obscene numbers of all-nba selections
Finals mvps\rings
MVPs
Pooh poohing that Duncan had a "great system" when freakin' 4 of the guys on the list played WITH each other kareem\magic and Shaq\Kobe just points out what a lame excuse that is.
Just on longevity and career totals I would move Duncan AND Kobe in front of Shaq & Olajuwon & Bird....probably Magic too because they ALL have tons of all-nba selections, MVP's, Rings etc. so what's the tie-breaker? Well doing it longer is in my book.
Exactly correct, Duncan's advanced stats are as good or better than just about any player in history.
I love that argument "but he played with manu and tony, blah blah. But he played in "the system"!!!
You mean he made tony and Manu, the ever changing system has been built around him, he wasn't just plugged into a system. Pop built the entire Spurs franchise around Tim Duncan 100000%
I'm actually comfortable putting Lebron ahead of Bird and Magic. I know this is sacrilege, as one poster already said, but I think he's just that good. I tend not to give him such a hard time on his Finals record because he was taking teams to deep into the playoffs at an age when other greats were in their rookie and sophomore seasons.
Lebron gives you a lot of the canny and court vision of Magic Johnson with a more powerful body and better athleticism. I think he put the "Lebron's not a killer" trope to rest in Miami since Wade didn't exactly help much in the playoffs.
I sort of feel the same way about Chris Paul as I did about Lebron. Great player, ridiculous basketball IQ, but it just hasn't happened for him yet. Winning a championship is as much about being in the right situation as it is having the drive and talent. Steph Curry is no doubt a great talent but he's also in a position to succeed with a great roster, a terrific coach at the helm and a front office that knows what it's doing. On the flipside, put Michael Jordan on those Lebron Cavs teams and the outcome is probably the same.
1 title. 3 years solid production (coming from a guy that played four years of college basketball) 3 years of All-Star Production, and a SuperStar Top-10esqu year this season. I stand by my comment.
I'm waiting for ANY argument that he belongs Top 10 RIGHT NOW.
Any argument? I'll give it a shot.
If you allow for peak comparisons and not total career achievement, maybe. Peak Curry right now is probably a better player than at least one of those listed in the top 10.
I'm actually comfortable putting Lebron ahead of Bird and Magic.
I'm not a LeBron fan, but I'm comfortable with this as well. I mean, I can understand the argument for him above Bird and Magic. It's it by far or by a great margin, no. Probably close.
If you allow for peak comparisons and not total career achievement, maybe. Peak Curry right now is probably a better player than at least one of those listed in the top 10.
Vince Carter played out of his mind too- At ONE point. I'm just using Carter as an example. If you want to change the criteria- you've made your argument I guess.
Duncan beats out Bird by most advanced metrics despite having had many more seasons to deteriorate. The "rings" argument can't apply here because Duncan has 5 to Larry's 3. Bird does have more MVPs but I don't think that really matters. Duncan's peak was just as good if not better and his career has spanned three decades.
Thats not scripture to me. Watch the games, I still like Bird, Magic better than Duncan and Lebron. Lebron because he's mentally small, Duncan is a winner and I like that, but saying hes #10-13 by the eyeball test is more accurate.
Thats not scripture to me. Watch the games, I still like Bird, Magic better than Duncan and Lebron. Lebron because he's mentally small, Duncan is a winner and I like that, but saying hes #10-13 by the eyeball test is more accurate.
"The eyeball" test is for casual fans with no real understanding of basketball.
"Oh look honey he made a basket from pretty far away.
Typical mavs fan.
If you understood basketball fundamentals and more than "eyeball tests" you would appreciate the numbers, the soundness of his game.
His footwork, his body control, positioning, his shooting form, his beautiful bank shots, how he blocks shots in a way to actually retain possession, not blocking it into the 5th row of the stands.
"The eyeball" test is for casual fans with no real understanding of basketball.
"Oh look honey he made a basket from pretty far away.
Typical mavs fan.
If you understood basketball fundamentals and more than "eyeball tests" you would appreciate the numbers, the soundness of his game.
His footwork, his body control, positioning, his shooting form, his beautiful bank shots, how he blocks shots in a way to actually retain possession, not blocking it into the 5th row of the stands.
Eye test lol.
Agree, that's why I have him top 15 all time! Isn't that good enough for you??
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