Looking to go off grid and tiny on the Hilo side! (Kailua: foreclosures, appliances)
Big IslandThe Island of Hawaii
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Well, a mindset of lawlessness is no good, but sometimes folks have to try to live cheap in order to get anywhere. There's a lot of folks who live in a tent for a few months to a year (which still isn't technically legal but is less illegal than no permit for building) while getting their first small house built. Many, if not most, of them have permits to build the house so once the house is done, they're no longer living illegally.
Used to be, the first thing would be a driveway. Then a cesspool - back when cesspools were allowed. Then a toilet would be placed on the top of the cesspool with a couple walls around it. That would be the toilet until the building was finished. It would also provide a bit of roof to catch water. It could take a year to finish the house since folks wouldn't have enough money for the entire thing at the beginning. BUT! By living 'sub-standard' and building their own house, their net worth would increase considerable and they don't have to pay rent while building. They can also keep the construction materials from walking off while they aren't on site.
Sometimes that little extra 'being cheap' allows folks to do something that will pay off at the end and upgrade their life a lot. If you build your own house paying cash, that can avoid the entire mortgage morass. Grow enough food on it to make the taxes be 'agriculture' instead of 'residential' and that will lower things by a hundred or so dollars a month. Catchment systems mean no water bills. Solar electric means no electric bills, although there are occasional maintenance expenses.
The general issue I have with many folks who have the attitude of "living cheap" is sometimes they forget to do it with style. Living well while being very inexpensive can be quite different than living cheap. Since most if not all 'living cheap' involves small houses, then the small houses can be built nicely instead of as an echoing barn. As a homeowner, they don't have to pay someone by the hour to build, so they can build in cabinets, router the edges of door frames, even build a sash window if they want. All those are craftsman type details and most folks using a contractor can't afford to have them because of the amount of time involved to create them.
Hawaii is not the place for living cheap. These people want their cake and to eat it too. In the process, they degrade Hawaii.
They should have a little respect for the place they wish to inflict themselves on. They should earn it first. JMHO.
Well, a mindset of lawlessness is no good, but sometimes folks have to try to live cheap in order to get anywhere. There's a lot of folks who live in a tent for a few months to a year (which still isn't technically legal but is less illegal than no permit for building) while getting their first small house built. Many, if not most, of them have permits to build the house so once the house is done, they're no longer living illegally.
Used to be, the first thing would be a driveway. Then a cesspool - back when cesspools were allowed. Then a toilet would be placed on the top of the cesspool with a couple walls around it. That would be the toilet until the building was finished. It would also provide a bit of roof to catch water. It could take a year to finish the house since folks wouldn't have enough money for the entire thing at the beginning. BUT! By living 'sub-standard' and building their own house, their net worth would increase considerable and they don't have to pay rent while building. They can also keep the construction materials from walking off while they aren't on site.
Sometimes that little extra 'being cheap' allows folks to do something that will pay off at the end and upgrade their life a lot. If you build your own house paying cash, that can avoid the entire mortgage morass. Grow enough food on it to make the taxes be 'agriculture' instead of 'residential' and that will lower things by a hundred or so dollars a month. Catchment systems mean no water bills. Solar electric means no electric bills, although there are occasional maintenance expenses.
The general issue I have with many folks who have the attitude of "living cheap" is sometimes they forget to do it with style. Living well while being very inexpensive can be quite different than living cheap. Since most if not all 'living cheap' involves small houses, then the small houses can be built nicely instead of as an echoing barn. As a homeowner, they don't have to pay someone by the hour to build, so they can build in cabinets, router the edges of door frames, even build a sash window if they want. All those are craftsman type details and most folks using a contractor can't afford to have them because of the amount of time involved to create them.
I didn't intend to display any angst at you. Your posts and attitudes are always most-accommodating and graceful.
It is the idea by some that they should be able to come in like it's the old west and sully the place with their pauper ways. These people should be sent packing, and maybe then, a better class of people will move in.
I didn't intend to display any angst at you. Your posts and attitudes are always most-accommodating and graceful.
It is the idea by some that they should be able to come in like it's the old west and sully the place with their pauper ways. These people should be sent packing, and maybe then, a better class of people will move in.
Dude...your "way" is not the only way. You, at times, come off as very intelligent, thoughtful, and learned. But, your inability to allow others to be "not you", or approach life "how you see it", comes off as an angry old man that screams at children, "get off my grass".
Thank F-ing god that not everyone is so rigid, angry, or unfulfilled. It would make for a very uninteresting world.
Dude...your "way" is not the only way. You, at times, come off as very intelligent, thoughtful, and learned. But, your inability to allow others to be "not you", or approach life "how you see it", comes off as an angry old man that screams at children, "get off my grass".
Thank F-ing god that not everyone is so rigid, angry, or unfulfilled. It would make for a very uninteresting world.
No offense meant and much Aloha sent!
Well said Plantastic! Although I am most likely building my home legally and permitted, I love how one assumes that because I've considered building unpermitted, I must be trash or something. I've always worked great jobs and have made great money. However, after losing 3 family member close to me within a few months of each other, my financial situation changed. I Didn't know that some people would be so offended by me inquiring about living a simpler life for cheap. There are people that I know that live in the Hawaiian Acres area who built unpermitted and I consider them far from unworthy of living the life style they do. Yes they built unpermitted, but they're home was built to code. They have a very beautiful home that was done very tastefully. They went the route they did to save money and time and they are happy. Luckily they have great neighbors.
It's unfortunate that we have so many negative people on here. Some of these comments we just have to ignore and shake 'em off. Fortunately, I've received some private massages from some of you with great advice, alternatives and words of encouragement. Mahalo to you guys!
I Didn't know that some people would be so offended by me inquiring about living a simpler life for cheap.
I’m not offended and I’ll phrase it differently.
Nobody on an internet message board should encourage someone to do something clearly illegal - whatever it is. One would hope more than likely neighbors aren’t thrilled - you aren’t paying your fair share of taxes on your illegal residence and lends itself to questions such as - if you are so willing to break the law on this issue what other laws are you willing to break.
It’s just not cool regardless of your intentions which is to defy building codes and skirt property taxes.
<SNIP>Yes they built unpermitted, but they're home was built to code. They have a very beautiful home that was done very tastefully. They went the route they did to save money and time and they are happy. Luckily they have great neighbors.<SNIP>
They may have it built to code NOW, but the code changes and sometimes it changes significantly so at some point (probably less than ten years) it will no longer be to code. One of the reasons for getting a building permit is to get the building permitted according to the current code so it will be safe from having to meet the new code when the code changes yet again.
Dude...your "way" is not the only way. You, at times, come off as very intelligent, thoughtful, and learned. But, your inability to allow others to be "not you", or approach life "how you see it", comes off as an angry old man that screams at children, "get off my grass".
Thank F-ing god that not everyone is so rigid, angry, or unfulfilled. It would make for a very uninteresting world.
No offense meant and much Aloha sent!
No offense taken and much Aloha back at you.
However, I must be honest and say that, IMHO, a seemingly never-ending stream of people wanting to move to Hawaii on a shoestring is not in the best interest OF HAWAII. There is thread-after-thread of such people, and I think that it is in Hawaii's interest that they be discouraged from doing so, in favor of a group of people who would bring enough wherewithal with them to build a reasonable house, that would pay a reasonable amount of property and GET taxes and invest money in other ways to help the area grow. NOT a group of people trying to do it on a shoestring budget.
Don't you think Hawaii deserves better than shoestrings?
I do.
I am looking at it from the perspective of what I perceive as being best for the State, County and general area. You look at it from a different perspective.
However, I must be honest and say that, IMHO, a seemingly never-ending stream of people wanting to move to Hawaii on a shoestring is not in the best interest OF HAWAII. There is thread-after-thread of such people, and I think that it is in Hawaii's interest that they be discouraged from doing so, in favor of a group of people who would bring enough wherewithal with them to build a reasonable house, that would pay a reasonable amount of property and GET taxes and invest money in other ways to help the area grow. NOT a group of people trying to do it on a shoestring budget.
Don't you think Hawaii deserves better than shoestrings?
I do.
I am looking at it from the perspective of what I perceive as being best for the State, County and general area. You look at it from a different perspective.
Again, much Aloha.
I draw the line at "government assistance" as an operative for income. I have no problem with helping people when they find themselves in a position of emergency.
I do have a problem with people that put more effort into "milking" income from various levels of government than they do in just making their own way.
If someone works their ass off to make their own way, even if it doesn't look "pleasant" or "desirable", I will hold as much respect for them as I would someone who worked their entire life to save and accumulate wealth.
I draw the line at "government assistance" as an operative for income. I have no problem with helping people when they find themselves in a position of emergency.
I do have a problem with people that put more effort into "milking" income from various levels of government than they do in just making their own way.
If someone works their ass off to make their own way, even if it doesn't look "pleasant" or "desirable", I will hold as much respect for them as I would someone who worked their entire life to save and accumulate wealth.
Aloha and Mahalo for the civil discourse!
I think we are in substantial agreement on those points.
<SNIP>
However, I must be honest and say that, IMHO, a seemingly never-ending stream of people wanting to move to Hawaii on a shoestring is not in the best interest OF HAWAII. There is thread-after-thread of such people, and I think that it is in Hawaii's interest that they be discouraged from doing so, in favor of a group of people who would bring enough wherewithal with them to build a reasonable house, that would pay a reasonable amount of property and GET taxes and invest money in other ways to help the area grow. NOT a group of people trying to do it on a shoestring budget.
Don't you think Hawaii deserves better than shoestrings?
<SNIP>
What good are shoestrings when everyone wears slippas? (flip flops)
[sorry, couldn't resist]
But on the flip side, when we get really well funded folks moving in from the mainland, they take the best places and put up gates and fences then everyday folks can't go there anymore. There's a whole community over in Kona where the whole place is gated with a gate guard. I know loads of folks who have done work on those houses (electricians, solar installers, plumbers, etc.) but I don't know anybody who has gone to those houses as visitors. The only way locals get into the area is as yard workers, pool maintenance people, house cleaners, etc. It's outrageously expensive houses, with people who don't actually live in them, they just visit a few days or weeks a year or so. Not sure why they'd not live here more, but I suppose they have houses all over the place and wander around. Hard to be any part of community when it's a more or less vacant house. It does pay taxes and keep folks employed in keeping it up, but no community there.
We may not actually want much 'growth'/ Frequently 'growth' is too expensive for most folks who live in Hawaii to get much of it since most of us have lower incomes than the folks moving over from the mainland. When land prices go up, well, we can't afford it but folks who have been living in a lower COL area with a higher income have been able to save up enough that they can come over here and buy up the more expensive places.
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