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I am not clear on your question. University City is a neighborhood in Philadelphia -- within Philadelphia boundaries. Any city/town outside Philadelphia is a suburb. One can walk from the Philadelphia boundary line and be in a contiguous suburb.
center city doesnt border any suburbs as you put it.
cambridge borders the back bay/somerville is one of the densest cities in the country. not a suburb.
also about 1/3rd of the places i listed in my post-51 are within the jurisdictional limits of the city of boston so not sure what you are trying to nit-pick ?
Last edited by stanley-88888888; 08-19-2019 at 08:44 PM..
I have dined in Boston proper and my perspective is the areas within Boston (89.6 miles) vs. Philadelphia (141.7 miles) and my travels elsewhere.
Boston proper is only 48 square miles (the other 40 square miles are all water). The older, central neighborhoods (which you probably never left on any of your past visits) probably don’t take up more than 5 or 10 sqmi? The Back Bay is only 0.5 square miles.
Fun fact: within the same land area (~135 sqmi), Boston only has around 78,000 fewer people than Philly.
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Originally Posted by lrfox
I didn’t come close to comparing Boston v. Philly. I mentioned Philly as having a good food scene because you mentioned it and it’s familiar. I also mentioned it (and Tokyo) as examples of places that have good (great) food scenes in spite of not having even close to good representation from every region in the word. I only mentioned the BBQ because it’s a ridiculous example for a Boston food scene convo. If you come to Boston expecting good BBQ and are let down when it doesn’t, that’s on you. Just like if you go to Philly or Tokyo and expect good BBQ. If the OP, as you said, felt that that the problem with food in Boston is that BBQ lacking, that’s a statement about the OP, not Boston’s food scene. Same as if I expected great seafood in Denver, top notch Mexican in Minneapolis, or 3 Michelin Star French in Tuscaloosa, AL.
Great post! I'd rep you if I could.
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Originally Posted by Tarzanman
While in Boston I stayed in Revere, Cambridge, Malden, Mission Hill, South Boston, Allston and Quincy. Work trips to Brockton, food runs to Dorchester, brief stopover in Framingham.
What I did not find were japanese izakayas, barbecue joints, korean barbecues, traditional mexican (no, not a place where they melt cheese on your burrito), gyro and/or shawarma joints or indian/pakistani spots.
Honestly how? With the exception of Mexican and BBQ, Boston has all those foods in abundance. It must especially take a lot of skill and focus to not notice any kbbq places in Allston.
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Originally Posted by Maddie104
Why is it ok to expect good Indian or Chinese Food but not good BBQ?
There are more Chinese and Indian immigrants in the Boston area than Southern and Western American transplants.
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Originally Posted by Maddie104
I am not clear on your question. University City is a neighborhood in Philadelphia -- within Philadelphia boundaries. Any city/town outside Philadelphia is a suburb. One can walk from the Philadelphia boundary line and be in a contiguous suburb.
Ugh. I've personally had to give the "Boston never annexed the neighboring cities" explanation SO MANY times, that I'm really tired of it.
Spend some time in Central Square next time you're in the area, then come back to this thread and explain to me why it feels suburban.
Last edited by Boston Shudra; 08-19-2019 at 09:19 PM..
I visited the chinatown in Boston... there is nothing quite like it in Atlanta (Duluth a suburb which is roughly 10% Korean), but there is an abundance of different types of asian cuisines. Different types of chinese, viet, thai, malay, indonesian, entire malls with indian restaurants, kiosks, clothing stores. Atlanta's burger scene is also on point (Vortex, Miss Ann's, Farmburger, etc). There is good pizza here, but pizza joints must be chosen with care. Gino's is equivalent to a typical Boston mom and pop joint, Antico would rate highly anywhere... and would give Santarpios a run for its money.... but the rest of the pizza spots must be rated on a case by case basis. Most people around Atlanta settle for subpar pizza; its mostly the northern transplants (like me) that seek out the spots with superior fare.
...
Ugh. I've personally had to give the "Boston never annexed the neighboring cities" explanation SO MANY times, that I'm really tired of it.
Spend some time in Central Square next time you're in the area, then come back to this thread and explain to me why it feels suburban.
big up; i cant tell if maddie is being purposely obtuse. comparing to her native philadelphia (which she was trying to avoid), she seems to imply cambridge is like king of prussia; whereas, it is more like university city.
big up; i cant tell if maddie is being purposely obtuse. comparing to her native philadelphia (which she was trying to avoid), she seems to imply cambridge is like king of prussia; whereas, it is more like university city.
What's with the big overreaction/offense and then insulting comment to an innocuous comment? I don't know if cambridge/somerville is a "city", "town" or suburb, nor do I care. Where did I imply Cambridge is like King of Prussia? You really think I am concerned about the history of Boston's failure to annex these towns? Please, don't tire yourselves from explaining to out of towners.
To me YOUR post was obtuse:
the t goes to somerville, cambridge, quincy, ... unlike philly whose broad street line/market street line are finite within the city borders for some reason.
I was simply explaining why the broad street line/market street line terminate at the city's boundaries and that there is public transportation beyond into the suburbs.
Philly has the regional trains from center city to the suburbs. But, Philly's restaurant scene is large enough within the city boundaries. No need to go beyond.
But, taking it from a Bostonian point-of-view, I guess that was your attempt at a dig toward Philly mass transit. Should I taken that as an insult? Who knows why it was even brought up?
You are the one to bring Philly into it; not me.
Get over yourselves. I'm done here.
Last edited by Maddie104; 08-20-2019 at 07:02 AM..
Someone can make an observation without being critical of Boston's good scene. If someone came to Philly and said Philly lacks good BBQ. I would agree with them. I would not say you are knocking Philly's good scene or I hope you didn't come to Philly expecting good BBQ. Lots of people like different things. Why is it ok to expect good Indian or Chinese Food but not good BBQ?
If anything Philadelphians would be the first to tell you what is lacking in Philadelphia's food scene.
That's the difference!
Are you actually reading the stuff you're responding to? I'm a Bostonian and I've already written here that Boston's BBQ sucks. This is literally what I wrote:
Quote:
I wasn’t saying you said BBQ “sucked” in Boston (it does, and I’ll own that sentiment without hesitation.)
So I'm not sure what "Philadelphians would be the first to tell you what's lacking..." has do do with anything that's being discussed here. You're kind of going off on your own tangent.
The entire point (which you're clearly missing) is that it's kind of ridiculous to for anyone to give a city's food scene negative marks because it doesn't have a big representation of certain regional cuisines that are not local to the area. Apart from New York, name me a city that doesn't have holes on the variety front? I'm not saying that's what the OP did (they did, however, absurdly cite the lack of fast food as a primary argument), but you mentioned that Boston lacked BBQ and Cajun. That's accurate. Nobody here is denying that. Boston does not have great BBQ or Cajun cuisine. But why would it? Why would anyone go to Boston and expect it to have good BBQ or Cajun cuisine? You've repeatedly said you're not trying to "knock" Boston's food scene which is fine. But if you're not, why even mention those two cuisines in a discussion about Boston's foodie shortcomings? At best, they're terrible, misguided examples. At worst, you're trying to stir the pot.
Someone can make an observation without being critical of Boston's good scene. If someone came to Philly and said Philly lacks good BBQ. I would agree with them. I would not say you are knocking Philly's good scene or I hope you didn't come to Philly expecting good BBQ. Lots of people like different things. Why is it ok to expect good Indian or Chinese Food but not good BBQ?
If anything Philadelphians would be the first to tell you what is lacking in Philadelphia's food scene.
That's the difference!
Are you actually reading the stuff you're responding to? I'm a Bostonian and I've already written here that Boston's BBQ sucks. This is literally what I wrote:
Quote:
I wasn’t saying you said BBQ “sucked” in Boston (it does, and I’ll own that sentiment without hesitation.)
So I'm not sure what "Philadelphians would be the first to tell you what's lacking..." has do do with anything that's being discussed here. You're kind of going off on your own tangent.
The entire point (which you're clearly missing) is that it's kind of ridiculous to for anyone to give a city's food scene negative marks because it doesn't have a big representation of certain regional cuisines that are not local to the area. Apart from New York, name me a city that doesn't have holes on the variety front? I'm not saying that's what the OP did (they did, however, absurdly cite the lack of fast food as a primary argument), but you mentioned that Boston lacked BBQ and Cajun in support of the OP's claim that Boston lacked options beyond pizza and doughnuts. That's accurate, Boston does not have great BBQ or Cajun cuisine. But why would it? Why would anyone go to Boston and expect it to have good BBQ or Cajun cuisine? You've repeatedly said you're not trying to "knock" Boston's food scene which is fine. But if you're not, why even mention those two cuisines in a discussion about Boston's foodie shortcomings? At best, they're terrible, misguided examples. At worst, you're trying to stir the pot. Boston has plenty of variety in terms of cuisine which you and the OP clearly missed. There have been several posts pointing this out and actually citing examples.
What I did not find were japanese izakayas, barbecue joints, korean barbecues, traditional mexican (no, not a place where they melt cheese on your burrito), gyro and/or shawarma joints or indian/pakistani spots. Atlanta has these in spades, and many more. What IS tough to get in Atlanta is:
1. Above average seafood (not surprising given the geography)
2. Good new york style pizza (which is tricky to find in Boston too)
3. Mom and pop style delis or sandwich places (they exist, but aren't super prevalent).
Mixed thoughts on this. I know of (and frequent) a few izakayas here, including a very good/reasonably priced one in Davis Square (Sugidama) which you said you've been to. Boston definitely, definitely lacks in on the traditional Mexican front. In terms of Korean BBQ, I would say it's on par with any city on the East Coast apart from NYC, though it doesn't come even close to what you'll find in SF, LA, Seattle, Chicago, Portland OR, etc. Most of the best Korean BBQ in Boston is in Allston and there's kind of a lot of it out that way. There are a number of good Gyro places as well. There's a decent Greek population in this area, so I'm not sure how you missed them. Opa in Davis is very good. Plenty of Shawarma as well in very, very visible locations, also not sure how you missed that either. I can think of 5 decent Shawarma places within a 10 minute walk of my office. 2 near my apartment.
I agree with you on NY Pizza. It's not a Boston strength. There are a handful of decent spots, but Boston needs more. Sam for the delis. It's a weird hole in Boston's food scene.
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Does Boston have most of the places that I did not encounter? Probably? But if so, few or none of them were convenient to any of the half dozen places we stayed. In lieu of these, I passed an inordinate number of Dunkins.... there are more Dunkins in Boston than McDonalds restaurants or Starbucks in the Atlanta metro.... are they state funded or something?
I'm still sort of surprised by how hung up on Dunkin you are. I agree that Dunkin has a disproportionate presence here relative to other fast food chains, but I think that's largely due to the lack of chains in Boston in general and the fact that Dunkin is really a coffee shop (which are often on every block in a major city) and not really synonymous with McDonald's or other chains. I see just as many Dunkins in Manhattan as I do in downtown Boston. It makes sense because it's a chain that started here. I'd have an issue with it if it somehow cut into the market for local coffee shops or other good chains (we have a ton of Starbucks too and a growing presence of Cafe Nero), but it doesn't. There are a million good coffee shops all over the city and region. There's no need to set foot in a Dunkin. And frankly, Boston's lack of chain fast food is considered a strength by most of us. There are holes in the food scene here that I'd like filled, but I'm more than happy with the lack of chains in this city.
I know of (and frequent) a few izakayas here, including a very good/reasonably priced one in Davis Square (Sugidama).
I like Sugidama very much and am always surprised it seems to a bit under the radar, perhaps the location hides it a bit. Ittoku is good as well. A lot of area restaurants like to call them izakayas but they really stretch the term. I don't get the impression some of these restaurateurs have ever been to Japan or an authentic izakaya. Same thing with enotecas (Coppa comes closest).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
...frankly, Boston's lack of chain fast food is considered a strength by most of us. There are holes in the food scene here that I'd like filled, but I'm more than happy with the lack of chains in this city.
What's with the big overreaction/offense and then insulting comment to an innocuous comment? I don't know if cambridge/somerville is a "city", "town" or suburb, nor do I care. Where did I imply Cambridge is like King of Prussia? You really think I am concerned about the history of Boston's failure to annex these towns?
“Failure” is not the right word for it.
Quote:
To me YOUR post was obtuse:
the t goes to somerville, cambridge, quincy, ... unlike philly whose broad street line/market street line are finite within the city borders for some reason.
Quote:
But, Philly's restaurant scene is large enough within the city boundaries. No need to go beyond.
Stanley said that in response to YOUR post (where you harp on “Boston proper”) in an attempt to demonstrate that the neighboring, independent cities like Cambridge and Somerville are just as connected to downtown Boston as the neighborhoods of Philadelphia are connected to Center City.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I'd have an issue with it if it somehow cut into the market for local coffee shops or other good chains (we have a ton of Starbucks too and a growing presence of Cafe Nero), but it doesn't.
Do you think Marylou’s will ever upset Dunkin as the local coffee chain of choice?
Last edited by Boston Shudra; 08-20-2019 at 07:48 AM..
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