Why do people hate California? (Los Angeles, San Diego: landlords, calculated, property taxes)

[UB50]

Originally Posted by happycrow

The Texas forum has LOTS of discussions about water, if y'all are interested.

Because the two cultures tend to be at odds, much finds itself feeling defensive from the other. CA feels embattled by others now -- the rest of the US felt embattled when CA tried to use CAFE standards to force the entire automotive industry to retool in the late 90s (early proposals of which would have made pickup trucks, an absolutely necessity of Great Plains culture, prohibitively expensive). Then of course we have the stupidity of the culture wars.

Because the early Progressives were unapologetic technocrats (the 20th century not having shown what that leads to), you'll find them mostly centered around "scientific" solutions, but here's a good place to start:
The Wisconsin idea - Charles McCarthy - Google Books

The issue with the cars isn't really about culture wars. More cars are sold in California, therefore auto makers tend to make things to California standards. Pollution used to be absolutely horrific in Southern California. You can't blame California for trying to make things better for people who live in the state.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by UB50

I find Texas reactive in a lot of ways, while I find California to be more proactive.

I find Texas religiulous in a lot of ways, while I find California to be more secular. CA offers a bit more than God, guns, and butter.

[UB50]

Originally Posted by nslander

Dunno. I'll defer to Texans.

I don't think they think that far ahead. Like I said, they tend to be reactive rather than proactive.

[happycrow]

UB50,

That's a nice argument, and in fact I agree with it, but that's not what was going on at the time. I remember discussing it with quite a number of folks at coffee houses and bars around the Bay where I was living and working, and people I spoke with explicitly discussed using CAFE standards as a specific tool not simply for cleaning up SoCal's terrible air, but as a means to force the rest of the country to play by Californian standards. As a lifelong Navy brat who'd been sent all over, I tried explaining that people elsewhere had a very different understanding of the issue because circumstances were different (though I agreed with the CAFE legislation in principle), and people couldn't quite seem to understand that owning a pickup truck did not, in fact, make one an evil troglodyte.

Edit: Here's a perfect example. In California, all through the 90s, "owns an SUV" and "*******" were pretty much guaranteed to come up together, right? Every time you turned around, you heard the phrase "some ******* in an SUV." But further east, where you saw a lot more and bigger families, SUVs and mini-vans had become pretty much required driving for guys with more than two kids, because kid-safety legislation said that munchkins have to stay in child and booster seats much longer than we had to growing up, and that meant you coudn't pile three kids in the back of a Datsun hatchback like my folks use to back in the day when we were in Idaho and San Diego in the dark ages. So, "some ******* in an SUV" versus "some middle-class family" is a pretty serious cultural disconnect.

Shorter historical memories tend to recast that in more sympathetic terms, but there were, in fact, quite a number of Californians at the time whose position was "I don't care what they want, I'm right and they're stupid." As for Texas itself, well, Texas has all kinds of problems and "our" bigots are every bit as loud, obnoxious, and ignorant as "yours" are. It's not paradise by any stretch, though it is tremendously more diverse than even ten years ago as the old-guard ages out and much more open-minded GenX and the Milennials tend to dominate the scene.

[happycrow]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

I find Texas religiulous in a lot of ways, while I find California to be more secular. CA offers a bit more than God, guns, and barbeque.

There, fixed that for you.

[UB50]

happycrow,

I grew up in central Florida which is similar to Texas in a lot of ways.

California is kind of weird because it's such a big state. The coastal areas think differently than those in the center/east parts of the state. It makes the state very difficult to govern.

One thing that most of us agree on: California is (physically) a very beautiful state. It's nice that we haven't completely screwed it up.

[TwinbrookNine]

That earthquake thing does scare me. I have a place about 15 miles from the fault, and there are about 2 or 3 quakes of 3.2 intensity or greater every year (you can feel those, but to me the sound is even more terrifying). And they seem to occur mostly between 1AM and 5AM. Nothing scarier then being roused out of sleep (or getting ready to go to bed) and hearing the shutters rattling and the joists rumbling. (I'm breaking out in sweat just thinking about it.) The Easter Sunday one a few years back was even worse - trees swaying back and forth and water sloshing out the pool. I was a bag of nerves for weeks.

I'm from the midwest and I get a kick out of how terrified Californians are of tornadoes. Geez, erarthquakes have no warning whatsoever; with tornadoes you get 20 minutes warning, the sky tells ya one could be in the offing, and heck, where I live, when the sirens go off, we go out on the porch or get in the car to go drive around and see if we can see it.

Anything has got to be better then Baltimore from what I've heard and seen. Lucky you. But do what I did: Buy yourself a canopy bed with strong uprights; put a thick piece of plywood across the top of it and some cross struts. You'll be fine. Terrified...but fine.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine

I'm from the midwest and I get a kick out of how terrified Californians are of tornadoes. Geez, erarthquakes have no warning whatsoever; with tornadoes you get 20 minutes warning, the sky tells ya one could be in the offing, and heck, where I live, when the sirens go off, we go out on the porch or get in the car to go drive around and see if we can see it.

Maybe a matter of frequency of destructive events. Earthquakes of any consequence are rare; tornadoes, especially along Tornado Alley, are commonplace. (Still wondering why vast trailer parks are continually being built and rebuilt in this corridor)

[bigdumbgod]

Long, blustering retorts usually have an effect opposite of the intension.

[Screen]

Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine

That earthquake thing does scare me. I have a place about 15 miles from the fault, and there are about 2 or 3 quakes of 3.2 intensity or greater every year (you can feel those, but to me the sound is even more terrifying). And they seem to occur mostly between 1AM and 5AM. Nothing scarier then being roused out of sleep (or getting ready to go to bed) and hearing the shutters rattling and the joists rumbling. (I'm breaking out in sweat just thinking about it.) The Easter Sunday one a few years back was even worse - trees swaying back and forth and water sloshing out the pool. I was a bag of nerves for weeks.

I'm from the midwest and I get a kick out of how terrified Californians are of tornadoes. Geez, erarthquakes have no warning whatsoever; with tornadoes you get 20 minutes warning, the sky tells ya one could be in the offing, and heck, where I live, when the sirens go off, we go out on the porch or get in the car to go drive around and see if we can see it.

Anything has got to be better then Baltimore from what I've heard and seen. Lucky you. But do what I did: Buy yourself a canopy bed with strong uprights; put a thick piece of plywood across the top of it and some cross struts. You'll be fine. Terrified...but fine.

Oddly enough I have no fear of earthquakes in California at all but the Pacific Northwest...yikes!