They fled in droves - now coming back? Dang! (Santa Cruz: how much, homes)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by majoun

It doesn't make any sense. Just build condos and apartments instead of those horrors. Another example of how zoning in CA is often completely out of touch with reality.

You're assuming that the immigrant buyers would be just as happy with apartments and condos, but that isn't true. Both Asian and Hispanic immigrants have positive attitudes towards multi-family/multi-generational housing, the whole "leave when you're 18" mentality doesn't exist in these cultures.

Regardless, there are plenty of smaller family homes throughout California so if demand from new homes is largely from immigrant the immigrant population building McMansions makes sense.

[BuffaloSpringfield]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

This sucks. Just when I thought everybody would leave for Montana. California makes a comeback. Dang!

Home-building boom returning to Southern California - latimes.com

"With mortgage interest rates low and prices for existing homes rising, builders are coming back into the market. They're bidding up land prices, scrambling to find workers and building bigger, more expensive homes than they did just a few years ago."

Why would everybody leave for Montana?

[jm1982]

Yeah...I don't imagine there are too many CA to Montana moves. CA to Texas or something I could see...

There is pent up demand for building..because there was hardly any building for about half a decade.

I think when construction really picks up we will see unemployment lower in CA

Many of the losts jobs in CA were real estate related.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Yeah...I don't imagine there are too many CA to Montana moves.

SHHHH...we have a movement here in C-D to slag CA in an ongoing effort to woo haters to embrace the wonders of the Big Sky state, who shall take their pent-up rage with them and gleefully run amongst the moose...or maybe they'll just continue to be mad, but whatever. Population reduction of the fractious suits us well. Maybe Wyoming? Dakotas?

[BuffaloSpringfield]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

SHHHH...we have a movement here in C-D to slag CA in an ongoing effort to woo haters to embrace the wonders of the Big Sky state, who shall take their pent-up rage with them and gleefully run amongst the moose...or maybe they'll just continue to be mad, but whatever. Population reduction of the fractious suits us well. Maybe Wyoming? Dakotas?

Maybe I am missing somethere here, but why would people want to move to Montana?

[oldtrader]

Why would everybody leave for Montana?

1: To get away from the terrible killer smog in California. It was leave the state, or arrange my wife's and middle son's funerals as they were expected to be dead within 6 months if we did not leave the Silicon Valley and bay area according to medical specialists.

2: To move to a state where they have a lower cost of living. A lot of companies here for their better jobs match the California salaries to get the right people, and the cost of living is so much lower it is like getting a 100%+ raise. We did not have the big housing crash here that they had in California. Companies here with minimum wage jobs, cannot find people willing to work for minimum wages and pay higher. In Montana unemployment rate is only 5.6%. Of course our highest unemployment rates are the Indian Reservations where the Federal Gov. controls everything. The Indians have cases in court, to get the power to control their reservations and to bring in things that will fight unemployment. We have 7 large reservations in Montana, going as big they are bigger than the small states.

3: For better living conditions, without the huge crush of people that you have in the populated parts of California.

Lets consider for the past 20 years, more people left California to move to other states. Here is a good study done for the 1995 to 2000 period, back before the recession hit.

See page 27, for the figures showing the age groups and numbers of in migration and out migration.

http://tinyurl.com/bxxdcya

It has gotten worse since 2000. More Americans are moving from the state, than to the state. Also note by age groups, the biggest loss is in the family years, as parents pull their kids and themselves out of the state for a better life.

The out migration vs. in migration has seen the white population fall from over 80% white down to 37% white today as middle class and educated white people have fled the state. The in migration to the state, is mostly from south of the U.S. border and Asia. The total number of in migration is less than the total out migration from or to any place in the world.

The only reason that California has grown in numbers for years, is due to number of children born, and over 50% of all Children born in California is to Hispanic parents.

From city-data.com

http://www.city-data.com/states/Cali...Migration.html

A lot of people have moved from California to Montana, and Montana has grown in numbers due to in migration from other states.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

The only reason that California has grown in numbers for years, is due to number of children born, and over 50% of all Children born in California is to Hispanic parents.

I'm not following this....is population growth from births somehow less real than population growth from other means? Is it some how less real when its "over 50%" Hispanic?

The transformation that is occurring in coastal California is the same transformation that happened on the east coast years ago and while it may be uncomfortable to some that grew up in California 2+ decades ago...its exactly as expected. The fact that many people are being pushed out of California due to raising land values is.....to be expected. To try and caste this in a negative light is strange because,again, its exactly what you'd expect in a capitalist system with private land rights.

If you enjoy Montana great,but don't spend your days complaining about California because you got priced out.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by user_id

i'm not following this....is population growth from births somehow less real than population growth from other means? Is it some how less real when its "over 50%" hispanic?

The transformation that is occurring in coastal california is the same transformation that happened on the east coast years ago and while it may be uncomfortable to some that grew up in california 2+ decades ago...its exactly as expected. The fact that many people are being pushed out of california due to raising land values is.....to be expected. To try and caste this in a negative light is strange because,again, its exactly what you'd expect in a capitalist system with private land rights.

If you enjoy montana great,but don't spend your days complaining about california because you got priced out.

bingo...!

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by user_id

I'm not following this....is population growth from births somehow less real than population growth from other means? Is it some how less real when its "over 50%" Hispanic?

The transformation that is occurring in coastal California is the same transformation that happened on the east coast years ago and while it may be uncomfortable to some that grew up in California 2+ decades ago...its exactly as expected. The fact that many people are being pushed out of California due to raising land values is.....to be expected. To try and caste this in a negative light is strange because,again, its exactly what you'd expect in a capitalist system with private land rights.

If you enjoy Montana great,but don't spend your days complaining about California because you got priced out.

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

bingo...!

Yeah. Good one user.

[Kafkaesque]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

1: To get away from the terrible killer smog in California. It was leave the state, or arrange my wife's and middle son's funerals as they were expected to be dead within 6 months if we did not leave the Silicon Valley and bay area according to medical specialists.>

sorry for your families difficulties.

2: To move to a state where they have a lower cost of living.

According to your own link a lower than national average COLA can be found in many parts of CA
as regards taxes and food, etc. Housing is higher generally, but not tremendously so outside of
the major metro areas. You posted it in an earlier thread. But I can provide it if desired.

A lot of companies here for their better jobs match the California salaries to get the right people, and the cost of living is so much lower it is like getting a 100%+ raise.

How much value did the average homeowner lose? There's a reason housing is generally cheaper
in Montana. Not much demand for it.

Companies here with minimum wage jobs, cannot find people willing to work for minimum wages and pay higher. In Montana unemployment rate is only 5.6%. Of course our highest unemployment rates are the Indian Reservations where the Federal Gov. controls everything. The Indians have cases in court, to get the power to control their reservations and to bring in things that will fight unemployment. We have 7 large reservations in Montana, going as big they are bigger than the small states.

Speaks to demand to live in Montana doesn't it? Not enough able bodies for the positions.
I am aware of the difficulties Tribes have with Federal and State, and the often ensuing litigation.

3: For better living conditions, without the huge crush of people that you have in the populated parts of California.

Potato, potatoe, many people prefer an urban to suburban environment, and not rural. Apparently
more people prefer to live in California than prefer to live in Montana.

Lets consider for the past 20 years, more people left California to move to other states. Here is a good study done for the 1995 to 2000 period, back before the recession hit.

See page 27, for the figures showing the age groups and numbers of in migration and out migration.

http://tinyurl.com/bxxdcya


It has gotten worse since 2000. More Americans are moving from the state, than to the state. Also note by age groups, the biggest loss is in the family years, as parents pull their kids and themselves out of the state for a better life.

Yet our population in CA still grows. It isn't shrinking. And we are free to move about the country
as we wish. I see that as a strength of the country.

The out migration vs. in migration has seen the white population fall from over 80% white down to 37% white today as middle class and educated white people have fled the state. The in migration to the state, is mostly from south of the U.S. border and Asia. The total number of in migration is less than the total out migration from or to any place in the world.

The only reason that California has grown in numbers for years, is due to number of children born, and over 50% of all Children born in California is to Hispanic parents.

From city-data.com

http://www.city-data.com/states/Cali...Migration.html

A lot of people have moved from California to Montana, and Montana has grown in numbers due to in migration from other states.

I wonder why it matters to an average American what race their neighbor is, exactly? I'm not
concerned by what race the neighbor is when they move in.