Should California's expensive regions consider increasing the minimum wage to $15.00/hour? (Huntington Beach: apartment, mobile home)

[Wilson502]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

But, the majority of people working those jobs are not teenagers. So I will ask again, who will do those jobs once all those people who are doing them and can't afford to live here leave?

Automation. Its inevitable.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Wilson502

Automation. Its inevitable.

Not everything can be automated. Also, those cheaper areas where those people would move to generally already have higher unemployment rates and for those that already don't, they certainly will when an influx of those looking for work show up.

the solutions I am seeing proposed here are looking more and more short sighted.

[Krispytopher]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Not everything can be automated. Also, those cheaper areas where those people would move to generally already have higher unemployment rates and for those that already don't, they certainly will when an influx of those looking for work show up.

the solutions I am seeing proposed here are looking more and more short sighted.

There really are no "solutions" at least not simple ones to be found on a message board, what there is however, is history. The has been a change in people and the working demographics. It use to be (back in the day) that kids worked these cheap jobs, such as McDonalds, and then would either promote, or more likely having gotten some experience went out to a "real job". My first job was at McDonalds, I worked with many of my high school peers, we had an adult manager and I only ever saw two other adults that worked there, but both of them had other jobs to subsidize because they knew working such a job was not enough to support a home.

Over time many adults began to drop out of school or have other issues that prevented them from getting past their first or second jobs, and they began to want a job whose intent was to give some money while you lived at home, to become a source of wealth to support a whole family. This is the problem, I am 30 years old and have worked at Mcdonalds, KFC, A&W, and a variety of other jobs, all of which I knew, or expected, going into that they may buy groceries, not pay the bills. People today feel that flipping burgers is worth $15 when my wife is a sheriff dispatcher for six years only makes $17 an hour?!

The topic is in regards to "expensive areas" and cost of living. I know several people that work in San Fran. But live outside the city and commute. You can't raise a wage for an area and not expect it to really change the surrounding area or the whole state's economy. Minimum wage can go up a buck or two, but not double. Plus people are lacking their critical thinking skills if they don't think that a cost of bread will quickly become $6 a loaf when wages increase, because then it can be afforded.

[slo1318]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

But, the majority of people working those jobs are not teenagers. So I will ask again, who will do those jobs once all those people who are doing them and can't afford to live here leave?

Its not just those jobs though, it would have an effect on all middle income service jobs. Like I was saying, your middle wage skilled guys will want more because their wages would be to close to unskilled help. Escalating costs of goods/food/rents would just inch upward. Its a tough call, but unskilled people have vehicles to become skilled people its a matter of having a plan to move forward.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Krispytopher

Plus people are lacking their critical thinking skills if they don't think that a cost of bread will quickly become $6 a loaf when wages increase, because then it can be afforded.

You haven't though this through in depth. Bread isn't priced now to accommodate minimum wage worker salaries. It is priced to be competitive across all market segments. Minimum wage earners are a small market segment.

Perhaps surprisingly, not very many people earn minimum wage, and they make up a smaller share of the workforce than they used to. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, last year 1.566 million hourly workers earned the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour; nearly two million more earned less than that because they fell under one of several exemptions (tipped employees, full-time students, certain disabled workers and others), for a total of 3.55 million hourly workers at or below the federal minimum.

That group represents 4.7% of the nation’s 75.3 million hourly-paid workers and 2.8% of all workers. In 1979, when the BLS began regularly studying minimum-wage workers, they represented 13.4% of hourly workers and 7.9% of all wage and salary workers. (Bear in mind that the 3.55 million figure doesn’t include salaried workers. But BLS says relatively few salaried workers are paid at what would translate into below-minimum hourly rates.Who makes minimum wage? | Pew Research Center

Keeping the above reality in mind, realize that, while ALL costs of products and doing business are ALWAYS passed on to consumers - uh, that's what business does by necessity - the costs of minimum wage labor are only one factor among many that constitute cost of business, and a relatively modest part generally. I am linking some reporting that demonstrate how little prices would increase with higher minimum wage.

Raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour could increase the price of a hamburger by about 438 percent, Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) argued at a town hall meeting with constituents on Thursday, Think Progress reports.

“You guys wanna pay $20 for a hamburger at McDonald’s?” Mullin said. “If you wanna increase it, that’s great,” he added, “but what you’re gonna do is punish everybody along the way."

The math behind Mullin's argument is a bit hazy and it's not clear from his remarks how a 38 percent increase in wages would lead to a more than 400 percent increase in prices. We reached out to Mullin's office Monday afternoon but didn't receive a response. Other economists predict a much more modest increase in fast food prices as a result of a minimum wage increase.

We do know, as Think Progress points out, that the price of a Big Mac in Australia –- where the minimum wage is $14.50 an hour –- is just 6 cents higher than in the U.S. where the average Big Mac costs $4.56.

While acknowledging that fast-food companies are profitable on the backs of low-paid workers, the New Yorker's James Surowiecki points out in a piece last week that a $10.10 minimum wage is something that "companies can easily tolerate."

There are also a number of examples of successful fast-food restaurants that pay their employees above the minimum wage, including In-N-Out Burger, which starts its workers at $10 an hour, according to CBS DFW. GOP Rep. Markwayne Mullin: $10 Minimum Wage Would Quadruple Fast Food Prices

Also of note:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/bu...ects.html?_r=0

[Krispytopher]

@tulemutt thanks for explaining my error and providing useful sources.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Krispytopher

@tulemutt thanks for explaining my error and providing useful sources.

You are welcome. I enjoy your posts as well

[mysticaltyger]

No. What expensive cities need to do is supply more housing so that people aren't priced out of local housing markets (whether renting or owning).

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by eccotecc

mbell75,

I understand what you're saying, but unfortunately the honest jobs seem to be in the more expensive regions of the state. Why would a person move to a less expensive area if there isn't hope of finding employment?

There are plenty of less expensive areas that have decent job markets. Those less expensive areas may not be in California, however, but they do exist.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher

Let's see how Seattle pans out first.

We already know what will happen based on the $15 min wage in Australia:

--A lower wage will be paid to teens (also part of the Seattle law)

--More automation=jobs to be eliminated

--Higher prices=people will consume fewer goods & services from low wage industries=more jobs eliminated

--Higher prices will increase inflation for everyone

--The higher wage will benefit a few who get it, but will also lock out a lot of low skill people from the labor market, some permanently, which means you get more people on government assistance.

--People at the bottom end of the wage spectrum will be most hurt by higher prices and most still won't be able to get decent housing in expensive markets because they are still at the bottom and the higher minimum wage does nothing to increase the supply of housing, which is the core cost of living problem in expensive areas.