Should California's expensive regions consider increasing the minimum wage to $15.00/hour? (Long Beach: standard of living, cost)

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

So basically you're saying, there's nothing we can do, just leave everything as it is and continue with the status quo? Well, at least you took the time to respond intelligently even if I may not agree.

I won't speak for the poster your were responding to, but here's my take:

I wouldn't say there's nothing that can be done. But I do think raising the minimum wage is a simplistic solution to a complex problem.

The core problem is we have too many low skill people competing for the same jobs. Why is that?

--Our schools suck. We have known this for at least 30 years now. And the core problem isn't a lack of spending. Even some liberals such as those who did the documentary "Waiting for Superman" will admit:

Amazon.com: Waiting for 'Superman': Geoffrey Canada, Michelle Rhee, Bill Strickland, Randi Weingarten: Amazon Instant Video

--Our family ties are weak: 41% of kids today are born out of wedlock. Probably another 1/3 of kids born to married parents will have their parents divorce before they turn 18. Even liberal researchers are now admitting kids who spend time in single parent families don't do as well in school, on average, and they also tend to earn less money as adults (and they're more likely to be unemployed).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...CJqU_story.htm

--Our savings rate is low and consumer debt is high. That means you have more people who feel they have to snap at the first job offer they get. That drives down wages.

--Expensive cities have a lot of zoning restrictions that prevent new housing from being built and drive up the (already high) cost of what does get built. Granted, building new housing is tough to do in cities with little buildable land, but it's not impossible. Many places like the Bay Area have this sort of elitist attitude toward housing. Sort of a "I got mine, too bad for you if you don't have yours" NIMBY attitude toward building new housing. Yet many of these same people complain about the high cost of living and that we should do more for low wage workers. They want the cost of housing to be lower, but they don't want new housing in their back yard. They want to do something for low wage workers, as long as someone else is making the sacrifice.

All of these problems are solvable. But they're not easy to solve. They require people to reset their expectations, to move out of their comfort zones, to cooperate with each other, to value long term effort over short term gratification. And the easiest way to **** people off is to tell them they have to move out of their comfort zones, that they must sacrifice in the present to have a better future. So our so-called leaders resort to feel good measures like raising the minimum wage because it seems easy and looks good on the surface--and it sticks the cost to a fairly small minority of small business owners.

I will concede a lot of people have had the rug pulled out from under them in recent decades. But America, as a culture seems to have gotten less disciplined at the exact time it needed to become more so.

[dexter14]

Originally Posted by Moriarti

where would that be?

The California minimum wage is $8. For a full time worker that is $1280 a month. Can't get a roof over your head anywhere in California with those wages.

Sure you can. There are plenty of cities where you can get studios or 1 bedrooms for less than half that. Desert Hot Springs, Hemet, Moreno Valley, Yucaipa, Highland, Barstow, Blythe...just to name a few areas. Plenty areas in central CA and parts of northern CA too. Or you go on Craigslist and rent a room for even less money in most of those areas.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by slo1318

The people that would do those jobs are people just starting out, teens, or re-entering the work force or even second income earners. There is always a cycle, those people moving forward would expand the economy and make room for more. Nobody should be content with working minimum wage forever.

We're going in circles now. I said earlier that the majority of those working those jobs are not teens.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I won't speak for the poster your were responding to, but here's my take:

I wouldn't say there's nothing that can be done. But I do think raising the minimum wage is a simplistic solution to a complex problem.

The core problem is we have too many low skill people competing for the same jobs. Why is that?

--Our schools suck. We have known this for at least 30 years now. And the core problem isn't a lack of spending. Even some liberals such as those who did the documentary "Waiting for Superman" will admit:

Amazon.com: Waiting for 'Superman': Geoffrey Canada, Michelle Rhee, Bill Strickland, Randi Weingarten: Amazon Instant Video

--Our family ties are weak: 41% of kids today are born out of wedlock. Probably another 1/3 of kids born to married parents will have their parents divorce before they turn 18. Even liberal researchers are now admitting kids who spend time in single parent families don't do as well in school, on average, and they also tend to earn less money as adults (and they're more likely to be unemployed).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...CJqU_story.htm

--Our savings rate is low and consumer debt is high. That means you have more people who feel they have to snap at the first job offer they get. That drives down wages.

--Expensive cities have a lot of zoning restrictions that prevent new housing from being built and drive up the (already high) cost of what does get built. Granted, building new housing is tough to do in cities with little buildable land, but it's not impossible. Many places like the Bay Area have this sort of elitist attitude toward housing. Sort of a "I got mine, too bad for you if you don't have yours" NIMBY attitude toward building new housing. Yet many of these same people complain about the high cost of living and that we should do more for low wage workers. They want the cost of housing to be lower, but they don't want new housing in their back yard. They want to do something for low wage workers, as long as someone else is making the sacrifice.

All of these problems are solvable. But they're not easy to solve. They require people to reset their expectations, to move out of their comfort zones, to cooperate with each other, to value long term effort over short term gratification. And the easiest way to **** people off is to tell them they have to move out of their comfort zones, that they must sacrifice in the present to have a better future. So our so-called leaders resort to feel good measures like raising the minimum wage because it seems easy and looks good on the surface--and it sticks the cost to a fairly small minority of small business owners.

I will concede a lot of people have had the rug pulled out from under them in recent decades. But America, as a culture seems to have gotten less disciplined at the exact time it needed to become more so.

Great response as it look at the issue in the long term and perhaps working on these things could see change. However, let's not forget that in the 1960's people did live on minimum wage (as FDR intended) better than they do now so I can only guess that the wage hasn't kept up with the cost of living. But what you are saying here is great for this and so many other reasons.

[Moriarti]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Sure you can. There are plenty of cities where you can get studios or 1 bedrooms for less than half that. Desert Hot Springs, Hemet, Moreno Valley, Yucaipa, Highland, Barstow, Blythe...just to name a few areas. Plenty areas in central CA and parts of northern CA too. Or you go on Craigslist and rent a room for even less money in most of those areas.

So, the person making min wage or close to it in Los Angeles should live in Desert Hot Springs? Do you see how silly your logic is?

You can't even get a roof over your head in LA if you make $10 an hour, never mind min wage.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Moriarti

So, the person making min wage or close to it in Los Angeles should live in Desert Hot Springs? Do you see how silly your logic is?

You can't even get a roof over your head in LA if you make $10 an hour, never mind min wage.

In the past people tended to move where they could afford to live.

[dexter14]

Originally Posted by Moriarti

So, the person making min wage or close to it in Los Angeles should live in Desert Hot Springs? Do you see how silly your logic is?

You can't even get a roof over your head in LA if you make $10 an hour, never mind min wage.

You said anywhere in CALIFORNIA. Do you realize how big a state California is? Now you are changing it to just LA? There are plenty of places in CA where you can get a roof over you're head making minimum wage, even if you work in LA.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Great response as it look at the issue in the long term and perhaps working on these things could see change.

Thank you. We often don't agree on politics but I appreciate it that you take the time to see other peoples' points of view

Originally Posted by Gentoo

However, let's not forget that in the 1960's people did live on minimum wage (as FDR intended) better than they do now so I can only guess that the wage hasn't kept up with the cost of living.

Please remember the 1968 minimum wage was the high water mark for its purchasing power, not the norm or average. Advocates of a higher minimum wage are using its high water mark and trying to pass it off as if it always had that much purchasing power, which is not the case. Also, the world of today is much different than the world of 1968. We have to not only compete with low wage labor from other countries, but also with machines/computers.

And let us also remember that in the world of 1968, the divorce rate was lower, the out of wedlock birth rate was drastically lower, and we also had a higher savings rate. Those 3 factors all equal fewer desperate people. So, at the very least, a higher minimum wage would have to be combined with real social changes if we want to narrow the income/wealth gap...most definitely a two way street.

One final thought.... I think it's safe to say that the generation of folks who were adults in 1968, many of whom grew up during the Great Depression/World War 2 & its aftermath, had more realistic material expectations of life than many folks today.

Originally Posted by Gentoo

But what you are saying here is great for this and so many other reasons.

Thank you

[Dean Trails]

Let's just cut to the chase!! Raise the minimum wage to at least $25 an hour!

Then, everyone can be happy and have a "living" wage. I would peg the minimum to say the average cost of food, housing, utilities and incidentals in an area.

It would then be fair to all and consumers won't mind paying a little more for their burgers? And, we can move on the bigger issues that plague us such as what the heck are the Kardashians doing this minute?

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

In the past people tended to move where they could afford to live.

Get your crazy talk out of here! Don't you know everyone has the "right" to live in the most expensive areas and get paid a very high wage for low skilled work.