But, but... what happened to the people leaving "in droves?" (Sonoma: colleges, property taxes)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Interesting article. I've lived in two of the top ten states for middle: Colorado and Washington. And guess what? The middle class are complaining about the same things there as well. Yes, it's really true. I can list recent threads on CD where they're talking about their woes. They aren't all pixie dust, unicorns and rainbows like some would lead you to believe.

Middle class struggle everywhere. Some just find ways to live their lives to the fullest regardless with a glass half-full perspective. They're making the most of it and manage their resources wisely regardless of which state they live in.

Hey, I grew up poor in a rich area with a single disabled parent. And she still found creative ways to give me a great childhood. And we didn't have to move to Texas or back to Michigan where she originally migrated from with the rest of our family. Instead, we lived walking distance to the ocean which I loved growing up. I know others living in CA on modest means as well. While not as genius as some on CD, they're still enjoying their lives with whatever modest means they have... in CA of all places.

Derek

Well said. The middle class aren't doing great anywhere in the US. And like you, I grew up with poor parents in Northern California. My dad was super smart but was blind in one eye and almost deaf so there weren't many jobs available to him so he spend almost 40 years working in an explosives factory. Until I was 10 my brother and I slept in the dining room of our 1 bedroom house. But in spite of that when there was a low tide we jumped in the car and went to the coast to snag abalone off the rocks. Other times we went crabbing and fished the eel river during the salmon runs. We went tent camping every chance we got and more than anything else, we loved each other and were happy. And when my parents saw how much I enjoyed reading they spent the money they had saved to buy a new vacuum cleaner on a set of encyclopedias for me.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Raising a kid a couple blocks from the ocean nowadays living modestly isn't doable unless you're getting several government subsidies and then some.

If living close to the ocean is really important to you, you could always move to Crescent City California where you can buy a small house for under 250k

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

It's not about a particular tax... it's about the overall tax burden. California is number one for highest tax burden. Tennesse is ranked 49... so that's a pretty stupid argument to defend. Just sayin' https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...x-burden/20494
1. California

State income tax: 1% (on income of up to $7,850/individual, $15,700/joint) - 13.3% (on income more than $1 million/individual, $1,052,886/joint)

Effective income tax rate: 3.2%/individual, 5.2%/joint

Average state and local sales tax: 8.48%

Gas taxes and fees: 38 cents per gallon (national average is 30 cents)

California tops our least-friendly list, thanks to a combination of high income taxes and hefty taxes on purchases and gas. California’s top income tax rate of 13.3% (the highest in the U.S.) doesn’t kick in until income exceeds $1 million; still, a married couple with earned income of $150,000 would pay about $7,500 a year in state income taxes.

California also has the highest statewide sales tax, at 7.5%. The average state and local combined rate is 8.48%; in some cities, the combined rate is as high as 10%, according to the Tax Foundation. Food and prescription drugs are exempt.

California’s gas taxes are down from a year ago, but they’re still the fifth-highest in the country. California also hits car owners with an annual vehicle license fee (VLF) of 0.65% of the purchase price of the vehicle (or the value when it was acquired) that’s reduced each year for the first 11 years of car ownership. For example, the VLF on a two-year-old vehicle purchased for $25,000 would be $147.

Californians pay lower property taxes than residents of other high-tax states, but in a state with some of the highest real estate prices in the U.S., they’re no bargain. The property tax on the state’s median home value of $412,700 is $3,160.

FYI, I live in Florida... our tax burden is #45

The state sales tax is 7.25%, not 7.50% and my sales tax (state and local) is 7.75% And the effective tax rate for a couple earning $150,000 is 7% but keep in mind that is on their AGI, not gross. And the VLF, yes it starts at .65% but by the 11th year it is 0.0975% (It's always a good idea to present factual data or at least provide a source for it) And according to this California ranks 10th in terms of tax burden, funny how you forgot to mention that since according to you California is #1 in all things that are awful

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

Did you read the entire document already?

If you lower regulations on small business (aka residential contractors) their labor costs go down, materials are less expensive to produce and transport, and the contractor margins remain the same.

When you need to eat a elephant you still do it one bite at a time.

It's supply and demand not the cost for construction. I thought most people understood that

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Racer46

Well I have family living in TN and the property tax is 1.2% based on 1/4 the house value.

But in TN there's not a limit on property tax INCREASES. (Those unpredictable increases in the 1970s in California are what led to the taxpayer revolt of 1978, the passage of Prop 13.)

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

And according to this California ranks 10th in terms of tax burden, funny how you forgot to mention that since according to you California is #1 in all things that are awful

Agreed.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

But in TN there's not a limit on property tax INCREASES. (Those unpredictable increases in the 1970s in California are what led to the taxpayer revolt of 1978, the passage of Prop 13.)

And municipalities and counties set their own property tax rate, the tax rate in Memphis is 7.246%
https://comptroller.tn.gov/office-fu...ates/2020.html

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

Of course that's true about prices but affordable housing is still available. Who's lumping them all together?

There are many thriving manufactured home communities that are quite nice and do not lower property values for traditionally built homes. Many retired people who live on fixed incomes find such places a paradise. In addition... if you lived in central Florida, what about ... "the Villages". Incredible story.
Small to medium to larger homes all together. People need places to live or they move where then can live comfortably.

Yes, incredible.. and the Villages even published a list of the costs associated with living in that very special place. These figures range from $807 to $1294 (not including mortgage) https://www.thevillages.com/cost-of-...n-the-villages

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The state sales tax is 7.25%, not 7.50% and my sales tax (state and local) is 7.75% And the effective tax rate for a couple earning $150,000 is 7% but keep in mind that is on their AGI, not gross. And the VLF, yes it starts at .65% but by the 11th year it is 0.0975% (It's always a good idea to present factual data or at least provide a source for it) And according to this California ranks 10th in terms of tax burden, funny how you forgot to mention that since according to you California is #1 in all things that are awful

I see different numbers from different sites, but I think this is the one you're using. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...x-burden/20494 I'll concede the numbers since I don't actually know them. Tax burdens do change over time so I stand corrected. However point is still valid. Comparing TN's tax burden to CA is still hard to defend.

TN is still #49 and Florida is still #45. I do know about Florida taxes since I've lived there since after college in the 70's.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

I see different numbers from different sites, but I think this is the one you're using. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...x-burden/20494 I'll concede the numbers since I don't actually know them. Tax burdens do change over time so I stand corrected. However point is still valid. Comparing TN's tax burden to CA is still hard to defend.

TN is still #49 and Florida is still #45. I do know about Florida taxes since I've lived there since after college in the 70's.

You might have looked them up if you didn't actually know them.