But, but... what happened to the people leaving "in droves?" (Berkeley: bill, design)

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

You might have looked them up if you didn't actually know them.

I did... that was a cut and paste, it was older, but recent tax burden list. I didn't make that up. Did you noticed it was italicized? Point still valid... it's about tax burden and to compare CA @#10 to to TN @ #49 and suggest the tax in TN is somehow in the tax realm as CA is a giant stretch, and won't win any awards during a debate. Ridicule maybe.

Did I spell something wrong too?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

I did... that was a cut and paste, it was older, but recent tax burden list. I didn't make that up. Did you noticed it was italicized? Point still valid... it's about tax burden and to compare CA @#10 to to TN @ #49 and suggest the tax in TN is somehow in the tax realm as CA is a giant stretch, and won't win any awards during a debate. Ridicule maybe.

Did I spell something wrong too?

But what you don't seem to understand is that all of this information whether right or wrong is not generating any interest in this thread. Those of us who live here know it's an expensive state, you did not tell us something we don't know. But what we also know is that people can and do still want to live here, and will continue to do so long after you tire of deluging us with California trivia.

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

But what you don't seem to understand is that all of this information whether right or wrong is not generating any interest in this thread. Those of us who live here know it's an expensive state, you did not tell us something we don't know. But what we also know is that people can and do still want to live here, and will continue to do so long after you tire of deluging us with California trivia.

So Californians are content and happy. Ok. I'll accept that. So tell my what I'm missing trying to understand why so many happy people are leaving?

Is that an unreasonable question? I'd like to know so the same thing doesn't happen in Florida.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

So Californians are content and happy. Ok. I'll accept that. So tell my what I'm missing trying to understand why so many happy people are leaving?

Is that an unreasonable question? I'd like to know so the same thing doesn't happen in Florida.

If "so many people leaving" is the less than 1% figure all over the news lately, that's just another way of saying 99% didn't leave.

That's nowhere even close to a "mass exodus."



Florida's metro areas are nowhere close as dense as California's, to say nothing of the fact that Florida is much cheaper. I"d start with that in solving the mystery of why one is gaining and one is losing population.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Losfrisco

If "so many people leaving" is the less than 1% figure all over the news lately, that's just another way of saying 99% didn't leave.

That's nowhere even close to a "mass exodus."

Florida's metro areas are nowhere close as dense as California's, to say nothing of the fact that Florida is much cheaper. I"d start with that in solving the mystery of why one is gaining and one is losing population.

Wait, are you saying that the great mystery of the ancients have finally been revealed? That is that California is expensive and kinda crowded in places? So, ~1% more left than came? Well, I guess we can all go home now. The answer has been discovered. On to more mysteries of the universe.

Derek

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

So Californians are content and happy. Ok. I'll accept that. So tell my what I'm missing trying to understand why so many happy people are leaving?

Is that an unreasonable question? I'd like to know so the same thing doesn't happen in Florida.

Yes, it's unreasonable because it's based on a false premise..that people are fleeing from California

“There hasn’t been an exodus from California,” explained last week’s update, “but pandemic forces have shifted where people reside within the state. Those patterns of relocation mirror what we were already seeing before Covid-19, but on overdrive.” In this version of the story, people are leaving big cities for smaller ones, which may explain why Sonoma County real estate prices are posting record highs
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...nia-in-droves/

And the same article mentions the phenomenal growth in Texas...

Ninety-five percent of the population growth in Texas was composed of Latinos, Asians and other minorities (which may explain why Texas Republicans want to make it more difficult for people to have their votes counted.) “That’s 3.8 million new non-Anglos in Texas, compared with about 200,000 non-Hispanic whites,” Texas Monthly said. So it’s complicated. While California leads other states in the net domestic migration to Texas, the numbers remain relatively small for California, a state with close to 40 million people. (Researchers at Rice University in Houston place the net migration from California to Texas at between 45,000 and 50,000 a year.)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

Nope... actually I'm not a worrier, but I have concerns by priority. Most people are probably that way believing solve the problems close to home and then helping the neighbors. Of course having a daughter in CA makes it somewhat personal, as she deals with CA and the issues that affect her.

Just a refresh the thread, she has a MS in Micro Biology and works in the greater SF area. Six figure income and housing cost are prohibitive. She has now decided, like many of her colleges, that there are better options beyond CA when it comes to a affordable life style without all the down side of the area. She's a scientist and you really can't do that from home. Don't get me wrong... she like CA.

Utah seems to be a hot destination for those who like the west in her discipline, but it appears NC tech triangle is her next destination... possibly Cambridge, MA, since her job requires here to occasionally travel to there other facilities.

Point is CA is losing talent.

Now when you look at CA economy and physical size of the state... compare it to FL, GA and NC together. Land mass about the same, population too... and GDP relatively close. Distance as the crow flies is more because FL is such a long state.

Well Dave, I’m sure Californians are honored to be a priority concern of yours. And good to know you’ve sufficiently solved Florida’s problems that you now have time to turn your attention to California, even though you’ve never even been here.

Your sense of civic responsibility and commitment is refreshing. Rarely seen these days.

But I am concerned that you’ve been actually pretty thoughtless toward the rest of the nation (and world for that matter). When you lament over California losing such great talent (as your daughter, for example), don’t you realize you are lobbying to limit the benefits of California’s educated and talented diaspora from benefiting other regions?

I mean, sir, don’t you think it’s wise and gracious even that ALL other states, such as Utah, and Florida, also develop their industries, services and economies as California has?

Frankly, Dave, California doesn’t need to keep everybody, as you suggest. We have more than enough talent, as evidenced by the position the state holds as national - and international - leader in so many respects.

By the way, I hope you don’t also feel that N. Carolina, as the nation’s leader in pork production, should hang on to every talented hog farmer. Even California can use some good pork chops and bacon production.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

The issue for California isn't just housing cost... that's a symptom of poor governance, elitism, NIMBY, etc. In addition, This isn't unique to CA, but it is exasperated by zoning laws and attitudes, more so then any other place in the nation. My contention the whole time throughout the thread, is the missing rung on the ladder = middle class. The poor will remain poor and the aspiring middle class will remain stuck, unable to break through the 'contrived' economic barriers.

The imbalance between the rich and the poor is the most fatal ailment of all republics.
~Plutarch~

Hey Dave … since you’ve previously said you are a priority guy, starting with problems at home, then attacking them civilly elsewhere (and thank you for that) … good to know you’ve cleared up the poor governance in Florida that created the housing crisis there in your home state. You have done that, right?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

Of course that's true about prices but affordable housing is still available. Who's lumping them all together?

There are many thriving manufactured home communities that are quite nice and do not lower property values for traditionally built homes. Many retired people who live on fixed incomes find such places a paradise. In addition... if you lived in central Florida, what about ... "the Villages". Incredible story.
Small to medium to larger homes all together. People need places to live or they move where then can live comfortably.

Yes. And thanks for understanding why it’s a good thing for some people to move out of California

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

It's not about a particular tax... it's about the overall tax burden. California is number one for highest tax burden. Tennesse is ranked 49... so that's a pretty stupid argument to defend. Just sayin' https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...x-burden/20494
1. California

State income tax: 1% (on income of up to $7,850/individual, $15,700/joint) - 13.3% (on income more than $1 million/individual, $1,052,886/joint)

Effective income tax rate: 3.2%/individual, 5.2%/joint

Average state and local sales tax: 8.48%

Gas taxes and fees: 38 cents per gallon (national average is 30 cents)

California tops our least-friendly list, thanks to a combination of high income taxes and hefty taxes on purchases and gas. California’s top income tax rate of 13.3% (the highest in the U.S.) doesn’t kick in until income exceeds $1 million; still, a married couple with earned income of $150,000 would pay about $7,500 a year in state income taxes.

California also has the highest statewide sales tax, at 7.5%. The average state and local combined rate is 8.48%; in some cities, the combined rate is as high as 10%, according to the Tax Foundation. Food and prescription drugs are exempt.

California’s gas taxes are down from a year ago, but they’re still the fifth-highest in the country. California also hits car owners with an annual vehicle license fee (VLF) of 0.65% of the purchase price of the vehicle (or the value when it was acquired) that’s reduced each year for the first 11 years of car ownership. For example, the VLF on a two-year-old vehicle purchased for $25,000 would be $147.

Californians pay lower property taxes than residents of other high-tax states, but in a state with some of the highest real estate prices in the U.S., they’re no bargain. The property tax on the state’s median home value of $412,700 is $3,160.

FYI, I live in Florida... our tax burden is #45

Ah taxes! Well Dave, another example of why it’s a good thing some people leave California and make space for those who can pay the freight!