But, but... what happened to the people leaving "in droves?" (Orland: mover, maintenance)

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

What exactly do you know about Berkeley. I'm curious.

Years ago I did an estimate for ungrading their electrical system.

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by evening sun

Oh go take a stroll down your so called beautiful beach in Florida.

They are beautiful. Here's the web cams. My place is north of Bathtub Beach and south of Jensen. Because you seem so 'friendly' I included a bonus web cam of the inlet I use when I take the boat out. Enjoy!

https://video-monitoring.com/beachcams/bathtub/
https://www.stlucieinlet.com/

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Dave if you're bored why not go to bed early and count the Palmettos on your ceiling?

That isn't a Palmetto bug ... that's a water bug or we/locals call it a rice bug. https://www.google.com/search?q=gian...5vrXzXcGDU1KfM

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

This comment best sums up the incredible absence of intellect of most of this thread’s comments.

First and foremost, the hilarious reality is that the very posters advocating for growth are also great lamenters over how wonderful California used to be … never stopping to consider that growth is exactly, and solely, what stole the qualities now mourned.

Edward Abbey said it most brilliantly and succinctly:
“growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell.”

“Zoning?” THAT’S the state’s salvation? Zoning to foster more growth? What kind of lunacy is this nonsense?

I just dropped in from a wicked camping adventure in some of northwestern Washington’s worst weather in a decade or more. In spite of the temperatures in single digits, and multiple snowfalls, and sustained winds of 35 mph gusting to 60 creating windchills well below zero for night after night … the isolation of the Olympic peninsula was cleansing.

Stupid me for signing in and browsing these stupid threads again.

I was hoping you join the fray. Welcome

Actually I agree growth is a problem, but the bigger problem is the governance that lead to social decline and unaffordability... as it relates to the OP.

California remains important to the rest of the nation. How she takes the wind in her sails influences how the rest of the country does too, although to a much lesser degree.

From a personal perspective it's why my daughter is leaving... the cost of housing. Just poseted a link about saving CA with a section about the housing dilemma.

We'll chat later... I hope... and try and be nice.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

I was hoping you join the fray. Welcome

Actually I agree growth is a problem, but the bigger problem is the governance that lead to social decline and unaffordability... as it relates to the OP.

California remains important to the rest of the nation. How she takes the wind in her sails influences how the rest of the country does too, although to a much lesser degree.

From a personal perspective it's why my daughter is leaving... the cost of housing. Just poseted a link about saving CA with a section about the housing dilemma.

We'll chat later... I hope... and try and be nice.

Good morning Dave. But no, any ‘social decline’ and all ‘unaffordability’ are functions of the state’s growth … which you have suggested should be encouraged further through, of all insanities, ‘zoning reforms’.

In any case, your focus on California, like the focus of your fellow Floridian beach also contributing nonsense to this thread, is completely disingenuous. The issues you both are trying to isolate and flag are issues facing ALL attractive and growing regions … including Florida, of course.

Florida has a ‘serious mismatch’ between housing costs and income
Nearly 1,000 people move to Florida every day, making Florida the second fastest-growing state in the country. Yet as housing demand increases, there are not enough options to meet the demand of those who need affordable housing.

No state has an adequate supply of affordable housing, according to The Gap, an annual report from the National Low Income Housing Coalition, published in March. Florida is one of the five states that are most challenging for extremely low-income renters to find affordable housing, along with Nevada, California, Oregon and Arizona.

Florida has only 28 affordable homes available for every 100 extremely low-income renter households, according to the report.

Jaimie Ross, president and chief executive officer of Florida Housing Coalition, said the state’s housing crisis boils down to the fact that housing prices exceed the local workers’ incomes, what she called “a serious mismatch between what people earn in Florida and what housing costs in Florida.”.. https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/...ng/7334433002/

Expert says lack of earning and the 'right kind of housing' keeps Florida in an affordable housing crisis

Housing, and the inability of many Americans to afford safe and stable housing, is "the biggest crisis in this country…"

… what he found there, resonates in South Florida; spiraling housing costs, dwindling supply of middle-income homes, lower average pay dominated by hospitality jobs, a reliance on weekly-pay motels for housing, and increasing demand as more people move to Florida.

Barely a week goes by without some kind of survey or ranking showing how expensive it can be to live in Florida — especially in large metropolitan areas like South Florida.

… Monthly rents are rising faster in Miami, Orlando and Tampa than almost any other area of the country.

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/...ng/7334433002/

We can easily find an exhausting number of links to similar articles and research of the topic identifying the problem nationally … and internationally.

But you worry for poor, once-wonderful California? Which state has climbed steadily in ranking to the world’s 5th most powerful and productive economy, driving the world’s technology developments with the greatest, by far, share of venture capital investments?

At the same time, the state’s natural features, including not least its exceptional Mediterranean climate, plus its world-class cultural venues, and extraordinary alumni of world-leading higher education - have attracted extreme population growth to the point where its most desirable coastal regions are bursting with congestion as we host the world’s 37th largest population.

And you suggest we zone for more.

Dave, there is nothing - I repeat: nothing - that 40, 50, 60, or 100 million people can do better than can be done by less than half that population size. If you doubt that, look at the Netherlands.

[Tulemutt]

I wonder, Dave, and Beach, are you good samaritans worried as well about the terrible housing crises in ‘formerly great’ Canada? Australia? Germany? …. How about Great Britain? ….

The respective housing crises of any and all of our nation’s important trading partners must have you guys tied up in knots.

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I wonder, Dave, and Beach, are you good samaritans worried as well about the terrible housing crises in ‘formerly great’ Canada? Australia? Germany? …. How about Great Britain? ….

The respective housing crises of any and all of our nation’s important trading partners must have you guys tied up in knots.

Nope... actually I'm not a worrier, but I have concerns by priority. Most people are probably that way believing solve the problems close to home and then helping the neighbors. Of course having a daughter in CA makes it somewhat personal, as she deals with CA and the issues that affect her.

Just a refresh the thread, she has a MS in Micro Biology and works in the greater SF area. Six figure income and housing cost are prohibitive. She has now decided, like many of her colleges, that there are better options beyond CA when it comes to a affordable life style without all the down side of the area. She's a scientist and you really can't do that from home. Don't get me wrong... she like CA.

Utah seems to be a hot destination for those who like the west in her discipline, but it appears NC tech triangle is her next destination... possibly Cambridge, MA, since her job requires here to occasionally travel to there other facilities.

Point is CA is losing talent.

Now when you look at CA economy and physical size of the state... compare it to FL, GA and NC together. Land mass about the same, population too... and GDP relatively close. Distance as the crow flies is more because FL is such a long state.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

Years ago I did an estimate for ungrading their electrical system.

All that tells me is that you know how much upgrading the electrical system would cost. It doesn't actually answer my question. By the way, what electrical system?

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

All that tells me is that you know how much upgrading the electrical system would cost. It doesn't actually answer my question. By the way, what electrical system?

So ask a bit more clearly... be very specific.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Good morning Dave. But no, any ‘social decline’ and all ‘unaffordability’ are functions of the state’s growth … which you have suggested should be encouraged further through, of all insanities, ‘zoning reforms’.

In any case, your focus on California, like the focus of your fellow Floridian beach also contributing nonsense to this thread, is completely disingenuous. The issues you both are trying to isolate and flag are issues facing ALL attractive and growing regions … including Florida, of course.

We can easily find an exhausting number of links to similar articles and research of the topic identifying the problem nationally … and internationally.

But you worry for poor, once-wonderful California? Which state has climbed steadily in ranking to the world’s 5th most powerful and productive economy, driving the world’s technology developments with the greatest, by far, share of venture capital investments?

At the same time, the state’s natural features, including not least its exceptional Mediterranean climate, plus its world-class cultural venues, and extraordinary alumni of world-leading higher education - have attracted extreme population growth to the point where its most desirable coastal regions are bursting with congestion as we host the world’s 37th largest population.

And you suggest we zone for more.

Dave, there is nothing - I repeat: nothing - that 40, 50, 60, or 100 million people can do better than can be done by less than half that population size. If you doubt that, look at the Netherlands.

Agree 100% Tulemutt with the state's excessive growth being the problem. Anyone who knew California when it had half its current population will tell you it was more livable and affordable then. So, worrying about its population not continuing to explode while at the same time complaining about affordability is a complete contradiction of concerns. What's more important?

1. More people continuing to flood into California? At what stage is it enough? 50, 60, 80+ million residents?
2. More affordable housing for the masses?

Pick one of the above because California will never have both simultaneously. Please go and read more about supply and demand economics. It's actually pretty straight forward. And no amount of zoning changing will ever alter these fundamental principles of real estate costs as more people continue to pour into California like there's no tomorrow. As population increases, so do housing costs along with it. There is no amount of new construction that will ever offset the millions of residents who already cannot afford homes especially in or near the main economic hubs where their jobs reside. Band-Aids for a limited group? Possibly. A solution for the majority? No way.

Other states clamoring for more people will eventually discover similar overcrowding problems as they experience explosive growth just like California has for decades. You may want to look into what is beginning to happen to Florida's middle class right now as real estate prices rise. California has already lived through that phase and beyond. Unless people change their mindset and begin living differently, more minimalistic, the old tradition American dream of a 'single family home' will become more unattainable for the masses.

Derek