Leaving California because of Prop 4 (safe, medical, rating)

[CESpeed]

Do you guys know we're discussing Prop 4 here? There's a thread for Prop 8.

[LexusNexus]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

I will never understand why people in the State of California are so against parents being parents to their children. Just because there are a very small minority of Parents who are abusive doesn't mean that responsible parent should be penalized. The defeat of Prop 4 makes it easier for organizations with a political agenda to take advantage of a child when she needs people who love and care about her the most. It also makes it easier for predators to cover up evidence of sex with a minor. I wonder if the people who voted against parents thought about these things or if they simply decided that the child and the impact this will have on her isn't as important as protecting abortion rights.

I'll be moving to a State that will support ME being a parent to my child as opposed to an organization that considers her as little more than a file.

Follow your conscience and best of look in Razorback country.

[bluenoter]

I believe black people are, in general, more old fashioned than whites. Most blacks are Baptist.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

I never said or implied that notifying parents would have an impact on a teen's feelings but we both know that teens run on emotion rather than logic. Granted there aren't a large number of older men who take advantage of girls but they do exist and they count on laws like "no parental notification or consent" to hide their crime. I guarantee I can come with a list much longer of logical valid reasons why a parent would need to know if their child was planning to have a major medical procedure that have nothing to do with keeping teens from having abortions vs. the list of reason why parent shouldn't know thier teen is having a major medical procedure.

OK, then prove your point... I'd like to see that list. IMO it's much more crucial to protect a child who may be abused or abandoned by their parents, or who don't have parents at all - as opposed to protecting a teen who is stupid enough to let this law determine their sexual behavior.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

Do you guys know we're discussing Prop 4 here? There's a thread for Prop 8.

Oops. Sorry. I got a little carried away there.

I'm not a parent but I was very disappointed that prop 4 did not pass. I firmly believe that parents have every right to be involved when it comes to the health and well being of their children. The abortion industry is big business and the providers aren't too concerned about the physical and emotional well being of their patients as evidenced by their opposition of parential notification laws. Before a surgical procedure is performed on a patient, the doctor needs to collect medical history information. How many teenagers are in the position to accurately provide this information. When I was a teen, I was not even aware that I was allergic to penicillan, which is a common antibiotic given for bacterial infections. The abortion provider needs to know this type of information to prevent a deadly allergic reaction. The point I'm trying to make is that ...

1. Teenagers are not always in the best position to advocate for their health needs.

2. Abortion providers are not serving the best interest of minors when they perform surgical procedures on them without parential notification and involvement.

[Chatteress]

Another thing that I would like to add is that teenagers do make mistakes even if they have loving and supportive parents. Teenagers spend an average of 40 hours per week in school where peer pressure abounds. Even in the most loving homes, a teenager may be scared to tell their parent that they are pregnant and will opt to deal with the issue on their own by having an abortion.

Consider these questions? What if something happens to the teenager while they are on the operating table? What if the abortion provider gives the teenager a medication that causes an allergic reaction because the provider wasn't aware of drug allergies? What if the teenager dies on the operating table due to complications of the abortion? How would you feel as a parent to be notified that your child is dead due to a blotched abortion that you weren't even notified about?

[CESpeed]

Thank you MsConnie for making my list.

May I also add what if the provider doesn't get all of it? This will cause a severe infection that can causse death. The teen may not know what's happening to her and by the time she's taken to a hospital she may not be conscious and unable to tell the doctors she's had an abortion. If her parents don't know doctors can waste life saving time trying to figure out what's wrong. I would like to add the point I made earlier about some teens being seduced by older men and using the "no parents involved" law to their advantage.

People on this forum (especially men) do not realize the emotional impact an abortion can have. These issues aren't resolved as easily as the physical abortion. Some women regardless of age, may need counseling for quite some time after an abortion. How many clinics follow-up to make sure that a teen is getting the care she needs?

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

Thank you MsConnie for making my list.

May I also add what if the provider doesn't get all of it? This will cause a severe infection that can causse death. The teen may not know what's happening to her and by the time she's taken to a hospital she may not be conscious and unable to tell the doctors she's had an abortion. If her parents don't know doctors can waste life saving time trying to figure out what's wrong. I would like to add the point I made earlier about some teens being seduced by older men and using the "no parents involved" law to their advantage.

People on this forum (especially men) do not realize the emotional impact an abortion can have. These issues aren't resolved as easily as the physical abortion. Some women regardless of age, may need counseling for quite some time after an abortion. How many clinics follow-up to make sure that a teen is getting the care she needs?

You are welcome! :-)

The emotional impact of abortion combined with other hormonal issues that teens face can drive a teenager into a deep depression. I seriously doubt that the clinics are doing the follow ups to ensure the teenager's emotional well being. I wonder what the rate of suicide is for teenagers who have abortions.

[RUBIES77]

Since I am not from California, will someone summarize it for me? Thank you,

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by RUBIES77

Since I am not from California, will someone summarize it for me? Thank you,

Prop 4 requires that if minors want to get an abortion their parents must be notified and there must be a 48 hour waiting period before having the abortion. This measure has been on the ballot three times in the past four years and has failed every time.

Prop 8 eliminates the right of same-sex couples to marry. Because it passed, discrimination will now be written into our state Constitution by defining marriage as between one man and one woman.