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The US healthcare system is not a role model (for a lot of reasons beyond what we are discussing here)
But the Canadian one is neither....it pales in comparison with France for example...
But one undisputable fact is that the US remains one of the major source of healthcare innovation in technologies and procedures (very expensive R&D). which are exported to other countries...someone has to pay for it (granted there is A LOT OF waste too in administrative costs)
The US is not for everyboy....if you aspire to a 9-5 job is not for you....
...and that is the what the discussion is about , it's not about France.For me, healthcare issues in the U.S. are one of the reasons I would not settle there, not just because of healthcare for myself, but for the society I prefer to live in. I am quite glad that we in Canada have easy access ,uncomplicated, healthcare for all. We are not having the discussion here in Canada that exists in the U.S. about not wanting to pay for others access to care.
As a Canadian living in Boston, the healthcare I receive here is better than the healthcare I received back home. No wait times, smart and friendly doctors, cutting edge equipment, easy access to specialists, and some of the worlds best hospitals are in the city. It is more customer service-centric and my share deducted on my pay cheque is not really that much as my employer shoulders most of it. The Canadian system is NOT FREE either, you still need to supplement coverage with private insurance for day-to-day basics like certain drugs, eye care, dental, etc. plus we pay this thing called taxes. If you are a working professional in the US with a good job then you will have access to top end health care. The US is still the richest country on planet earth and working professional people are taken care of healthcare wise. It's not accurate to making sweeping generalizations about everyone struggling in the US Healthcare system b/c that's far from the truth.
The US system fails miserably for those who do not have access to good plans. If you are lower or lower-middle income, then you will more likely not have as good a plan from your job/employer. If you are not working, then you will have nothing either. The system is definitely more income-based than Canada's. Obamacare will change some of this and any movement towards Canada's system is a good thing IMO. Neither system is perfect but overall, I find the US system less perfect than Canada's. Too much wastage and profit seeking by drug companies, insurers, and doctors in the US system that needs to be cleaned up. The Canadian system suffers from bloated costs/inefficiency, long wait times and apathy but the safety net for emergencies is a great advantage that I would like to see in the US. The US system, however, does provide a lot of innovation compared to more socialized systems. I think the Obamacare has the potential to elevate the US system for all citizens in a better fashion, but the money has to come out of someone's pockets to increase access.
So getting back to the point of this thread, if you are someone who is educated, free from some pre-existing disease, and have some level of ambition to work and get a decent job, I just don't think healthcare will be a dealbreaker in terms of deciding to stay/leave Vancouver for Seattle. It wont' have an impact on your day-to-day life. It hasn't for me or any of the many Canadians I've met in the US.
My main point is that the US healthcare system is inferior to the Canadian one. Co-pay and medicaid have major issues. Although the Canadian system is not perfect, everyone one is covered, no one loses their life savings or home because of illness. The US system is a complicated mess.
Two articles, one on co-pay issues and one on medicaid issues. Far from being role models on how to run a countries healthcare.
I am always amazed at how many Canadians want to desperately hold onto the past when it comes to the US Healthcare system. It could be as a result of having an agenda, not being well read on the topic or just plain ignorance, but alot has happened in the past few years when it comes to the Healthcare system in the US.
The PPACA was passed in 2010, amended in 2011 and upheld by the Supreme Court in 2012. Most major provisions begin on January 1, 2014. If you have an opinion on the American Healthcare System, then it should be based on this piece of 600+ page legislation and nothing else. The articles you posted were from 2009 for example. Was that reality in 2009? Yes; but should we harp on the past or deal with what is reality as we stand here today or not?
If you have a beef with "Obamacare" then by all means it has its flaws and people would be more than happy to deal with them, but if you are not familiar with the contents of the law then why on earth would you offer an opinion? Just a quick question, how many years did it take for Canadian Single Payer System to be fully phased in and cover 100% of the population? If you look at the trials involved then you will see this is not something that happened overnight. Approaching the US version of healthcare reform deserves at the very least the same amount of time to really make an impact.
If you are interested, a study of Massachusetts Healthcare reform is a preview into how the PPACA will work on a National scale. Also if you read about Healthcare reform in the Netherlands, it is also very similar, considering the Harvard Public Health Architect for the Massachusetts system, was hired to spearhead reform in the Netherlands. Of course once again if you have an issue with the Mass and Netherlands reform then I'm sure most would be interested in hearing you're thoughts.
Last edited by edwardsyzzurphands; 05-15-2013 at 01:32 PM..
So getting back to the point of this thread, if you are someone who is educated, free from some pre-existing disease, and have some level of ambition to work and get a decent job, I just don't think healthcare will be a dealbreaker in terms of deciding to stay/leave Vancouver for Seattle. It wont' have an impact on your day-to-day life. It hasn't for me or any of the many Canadians I've met in the US.
As a Canadian living in Boston, the healthcare I receive here is better than the healthcare I received back home. No wait times, smart and friendly doctors, cutting edge equipment, easy access to specialists, and some of the worlds best hospitals are in the city. It is more customer service-centric and my share deducted on my pay cheque is not really that much as my employer shoulders most of it. The Canadian system is NOT FREE either, you still need to supplement coverage with private insurance for day-to-day basics like certain drugs, eye care, dental, etc. plus we pay this thing called taxes. If you are a working professional in the US with a good job then you will have access to top end health care. The US is still the richest country on planet earth and working professional people are taken care of healthcare wise. It's not accurate to making sweeping generalizations about everyone struggling in the US Healthcare system b/c that's far from the truth.
The US system fails miserably for those who do not have access to good plans. If you are lower or lower-middle income, then you will more likely not have as good a plan. If you are not working, then you will have nothing either. The system is definitely more income-based than Canada's. Obamacare will change some of this and any movement towards Canada's system is a good thing IMO. Neither system is perfect but overall, I find the US system less perfect than Canada's. Too much wastage and profit seeking by drug companies, insurers, and doctors in the US system that needs to be cleaned up. The Canadian system suffers from bloated costs/inefficiency, long wait times and apathy but the safety net for emergencies is a great advantage that I would like to see in the US. The US system, however, does provide a lot of innovation compared to more socialized systems. I think the Obamacare has the potential to elevate the US system for all citizens in a better fashion, but the money has to come out of someone's pockets to increase access.
So getting back to the point of this thread, if you are someone who is educated, free from some pre-existing disease, and have some level of ambition to work and get a decent job, I just don't think healthcare will be a dealbreaker in terms of deciding to stay/leave Vancouver for Seattle. It wont' have an impact on your day-to-day life. It hasn't for me or any of the many Canadians I've met in the US.
Yes, but Boston is not Seattle, which is what the OP is asking about. I don't want to turn this into a healthcare debate since there a million threads on that subject, however I do find your take on the Canadian system gives the impression that all wait for care. Simply not true. Wait times also exist in many parts of the US as well. Also the comment about bloated costs and inefficiency sticks out. Medical costs in Canada are cheaper than the U.S. and is much more efficient since the billing is extremely streamlined since it's single-pay for the patient.
The question was about what an individual's reasons for moving or not moving to Seattle were. For myself, once again, healthcare would be an issue.
So, their words and speeches are more boneheaded than the words and speeches of American politicians? How so? Please elaborate.
Words and speeches are harmless.....if they cannot even deliver on that.....
In the US we have some circus freaks like Sarah Palin.....colorful but mostly harmless.....Canadian politicians on average bring the term "empty suits" to an entire new level...
Not saying our political system is better......we do not delude ourselves, congress approval level is at all time lows.....but if Canadian thinks theirs is better what can I say, is nice to live in bubble land..
Canadians , in general, naively believe in good government..Americans, realistically, don't....
My personal Canadian experience has been the disastrous NDP era in BC (not even in the deep south and not even a third grade local politician would sell himself for a house new deck job like Glen Clark did)....no wonder yesterday British Columbians decided to stick with what they perceive as a less bad choice.....
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