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Plenty of links to sites describing economic consequences of a separate Quebec on Google.
Heres another, bit dated but most of the concepts are still relevant..How Will We Fare?
I have read that before.... it is a good read and I know it's not easy to come up with firm numbers/percentages as to how much a particular province *gives* and how much a particular province *gets*.
In the end of the article though... Quebec is listed as a "have not" province along with the territories and the maritime provinces and also has the distinction of having the highest provincial tax rates of any province in the country.
Also - if the separatists were successful in their mandate they would be obligated to take Quebec's share of the federal debt which is currently in the neighborhood of 616 billion dollars.
I wasn't trying to be rude when I asked how the separatists explain the economic viability of their plan... I'm just really curious!
I didn't think you were being rude, it is a VERY valid question. One that both sides, I'm sure, will manipulate numbers to their advantage.
Personally and this is my gut feeling, is that Quebec can't afford to separate on the terms that the ROC will demand.
More info on consequences of Quebec separation, if Pauline hasnt thought about this stuff Quebec is in for a very bumpy ride in their attempts at a separate nation status.
The fact that its neck and neck with a party whos sole objective is to leave the Canadian collective is astounding to me and speaks volumes to the attitudes of a major part of the francophone demographic toward their view of being Canadian.
I suppose it's a fault of the voting system but it actually means only 1 in 3 is voting for a party with the objective of separation.
2 in 3 don't want that or are voting elsewhere.
That's why in a referendum, things probably wouldn't go that way.
There certainly seemed enough pro separatists to vote in the current PQ government and i suspect enough of a pro separatist demographic to give that government the majority it seeks, i have no reason to believe it wont call a referendum given a majority government as thats their sole raison d'etre, whether that scenario culminates in a separate Quebec is any ones guess but it seems rather odd to vote for a separatist party yet not want to separate when given the option to do so....
Again, what is Quebecs point in staying in Canada when so many dont view themselves as Canadian and dont particularly like the ROC's Anglophone demographic?
There certainly seemed enough pro separatists to vote in the current PQ government and i suspect enough of a pro separatist demographic to give that government the majority it seeks, i have no reason to believe it wont call a referendum given a majority government as thats their sole raison d'etre, whether that scenario culminates in a separate Quebec is any ones guess but it seems rather odd to vote for a separatist party yet not want to separate when given the option to do so....
Again, what is Quebecs point in staying in Canada when so many dont view themselves as Canadian and dont particularly like the ROC's Anglophone demographic?
Quebec has been voting like this for as long as I can remember.. What was the Bloc's raison d'etre... same thing.. Look at Bouchard and Parizeau's PQ - they had majorities as well when they were Premier's and it was there's as well so its all about politics.. Quebecers sway a lot when it comes to voting patterns... One thing they haven't dabbled in as is being a Clear Majority wanting separation from Canada.. This is an opportunity for us as English Canadians to come to terms with and maybe extend an olive branch.
Perhaps both sides would do well to learn more about the other.. There is definitely enough common ground beyond culture and language.. I always feel more at home in Quebec than I do in the U.S because I am in Canada! I know you are tired of all this and believe me, there is a big part of me that is as well so I get where you are coming from, but at the end of the day - its family!
Quebec has been voting like this for as long as I can remember.. What was the Bloc's raison d'etre... same thing.. Look at Bouchard and Parizeau's PQ - they had majorities as well when they were Premier's and it was there's as well so its all about politics.. Quebecers sway a lot when it comes to voting patterns... One thing they haven't dabbled in as is being a Clear Majority wanting separation from Canada.. This is an opportunity for us as English Canadians to come to terms with and maybe extend an olive branch.
Perhaps both sides would do well to learn more about the other.. There is definitely enough common ground beyond culture and language.. I always feel more at home in Quebec than I do in the U.S because I am in Canada! I know you are tired of all this and believe me, there is a big part of me that is as well so I get where you are coming from, but at the end of the day - its family!
The way a lot of us see this family thing is through the eyes of a family that has continually been threatened with junior demanding all sorts of additional attention lest he pack his back-pack and run away from home.
While it was within some reason to coddle his immature behaviour and accede when still a junior, it has now become applicable to practice tough-love and call his bluff.
Demanding so many things that your siblings did not, it has now gone far enough that we cannot meet your demands any further so; "here's your last load of laundry all starched and ironed; off you go, but before leaving return your keys to the house, car, and boat, hand back your membership cards to the library, fitness club, and golf club.
Remember to visit the on-line sites for your internet, cable TV and cel-phone to arrange to have your bill sent to you now as we are cancelling you from our 'family plan'..
Do not call us for a reference when attempting to attain a loan to afford things like car insurance or club memberships that were all granted through family plans. Your demonstrable lack of respect for fellow family members has left us unwilling to stake our reputation on your immaturity".
Oh, and lest there be some confusion, there will be no do-over's as has been the practice to date. Once gone, you stay gone! Your addiction to blackmailing your family has finally overcome our ability for accommodation. Perhaps France will pick up your tab at the dry-cleaners.
I think that would be a somewhat characteristic depiction of the feelings of a sizable number of Canadians. YMMV however.
The way a lot of us see this family thing is through the eyes of a family that has continually been threatened with junior demanding all sorts of additional attention lest he pack his back-pack and run away from home.
While it was within some reason to coddle his immature behaviour and accede when still a junior, it has now become applicable to practice tough-love and call his bluff.
Demanding so many things that your siblings did not, it has now gone far enough that we cannot meet your demands any further so; "here's your last load of laundry all starched and ironed; off you go, but before leaving return your keys to the house, car, and boat, hand back your membership cards to the library, fitness club, and golf club.
Remember to visit the on-line sites for your internet, cable TV and cel-phone to arrange to have your bill sent to you now as we are cancelling you from our 'family plan'..
Do not call us for a reference when attempting to attain a loan to afford things like car insurance or club memberships that were all granted through family plans. Your demonstrable lack of respect for fellow family members has left us unwilling to stake our reputation on your immaturity".
Oh, and lest there be some confusion, there will be no do-over's as has been the practice to date. Once gone, you stay gone! Your addiction to blackmailing your family has finally overcome our ability for accommodation. Perhaps France will pick up your tab at the dry-cleaners.
I think that would be a somewhat characteristic depiction of the feelings of a sizable number of Canadians. YMMV however.
There certainly seemed enough pro separatists to vote in the current PQ government and i suspect enough of a pro separatist demographic to give that government the majority it seeks,
But that's not how referendums work is it?
If just over 36% ( 1 in 3) is enough to give a majority government that's one thing.
But the same vote in a referendum is a yes or no, there are no other parties to dilute the vote.
So, in theory you get the 2 in 3 voting no.
Of course, it's not that simple.
I've spoken to a few Quebecers and the main reason they often quote is that the ROC voted Harper and they don't want a guy like that controlling Canadian law/Quebec law. And that's from the Quebecers who don't want separation...
A different PM might well sway everyone back into the status quo...especially one loved by Quebecers as much as the Trudeaus.
Last edited by qwertyjjj; 03-16-2014 at 04:10 PM..
But that's not how referendums work is it?
If just over 36% ( 1 in 3) is enough to give a majority government that's one thing.
But the same vote in a referendum is a yes or no, there are no other parties to dilute the vote.
So, in theory you get the 2 in 3 voting no.
Of course, it's not that simple.
I've spoken to a few Quebecers and the main reason they often quote is that the ROC voted Harper and they don't want a guy like that controlling Canadian law/Quebec law. And that's from the Quebecers who don't want separation...
A different PM might well sway everyone back into the status quo...especially one loved by Quebecers as much as the Trudeaus.
You are way off base on that one. The constituency that forms the PQ's or BQ's base today are the same lot that hated Trudeau senior when he was in office. He damn near had to go to war with their predecessors. They use whatever excuse they can to justify their dislike of whatever federal government is in power. They even hated Chretien. Now it's Harper and his making laws.
You forget the ROC has elected any number of PM's from the Province of Quebec and a Trudeau being among them.
Young master Trudeau would be just so much cannon fodder in their sights. As soon as his federalists feathers began to shine they'd turn on him like they have with every single PM that has attempted to appease them while not totally capitulating to their demands. He has nowhere near the cojones his papa had.
Now about this status-quo and it being preferable; how so, might I ask?
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