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Very good counter point to the poster's surmisal that a country's capital city attracts the "best and brightest" ~ NOT!
It does attract those who probably could NOT make it in the private sector. It would NOT attract those such as the innovators and risk takers and instead attracts those who are content with mediocrity and conformity. NOT what I would term the "best and the brightest".
"Ottawa has the highest per capita concentration of engineers, scientists, and residents with PhDs in Canada".
If we look at Washington DC, Canberra, Brasilia and most national capitals in the western hemisphere, the statistics are similar. In Canada this may somewhat skewed because many of the 'best and brightest' find employment in the United States, but it is statistically undeniable that national seats of government disproportionately attract an educated demographic. Like Ottawa or Quebec City, the aforementioned capitals are not the largest cities and are cities that without hosting the seat of government would be relatively irrelevant.
That being said, I have to agree with Botticelli is correct that the private rather than the public sector creates wealth. Whether or not the seat of government attracts the best and brightest is somewhat irrelevant in deciding the countries overall GDP. What this means is that Quebec City as a (true) national capital would see in increase in it's educated demographic, but this would have little bearing in creating wealth for the country.
"Ottawa has the highest per capita concentration of engineers, scientists, and residents with PhDs in Canada".
If we look at Washington DC, Canberra, Brasilia and most national capitals in the western hemisphere, the statistics are similar. In Canada this may somewhat skewed because many of the 'best and brightest' find employment in the United States, but it is statistically undeniable that national seats of government disproportionately attract an educated demographic. Like Ottawa or Quebec City, the aforementioned capitals are not the largest cities and are cities that without hosting the seat of government would be relatively irrelevant.
That being said, I have to agree with Botticelli is correct that the private rather than the public sector creates wealth. Whether or not the seat of government attracts the best and brightest is somewhat irrelevant in deciding the countries overall GDP. What this means is that Quebec City as a (true) national capital would see in increase in it's educated demographic, but this would have little bearing in creating wealth for the country.
You completely misunderstood my post.. I was not debating the "best and the brightest" with you regarding their educational credentials BUT the application of those credentials so as to contribute to Canada's or any other capital city's ability to sustain itself were it to become less in political stature.
I completely agree with your statement I bolded. To the extent that all of those engineers, scientists and Phd's would become instantly redundant and useless to the city were it to lose capital status. Ergo; they do not contribute to anything but they are rather, net takers from the public purse.
In short, I think we are essentially in agreement.
Can the PQ actually govern - you know, balance budgets, fill potholes, etc.?
They are a typical left-wing government on that front -- tax and spend, then hope for robust economic growth in order to get a balanced budget. When that fails (e.g. this year), they get a deficit. To be fair, the current team has only had ~1.5 years to prove themselves following almost 10 years of Lib rule.
Quebec Liberals (PLQ) are not all that different with respect to balancing budgets (or not), but they tax differently (they favor tariffs and fees instead of income taxes) and spend differently (more infrastructure and isolated investments as opposed to more extensive social programs and structural gov't spending). Quebec's third party (CAQ) fills a void on the "tax less, spend less" center-right, but it doesn't have much of a shot this time around, both because its leader (Legault) has no charisma, and because part of its base is anti-immigration and isolationist -- the very voters the PQ has targeted with its Charter project and that would be responsible for a PQ majority.
not sure about this, yes quebec trades a lot with US but also Europe.
Where would the US be without China? Trade is always dependent on other countries and Quebec has resources.
A consolidated table listing total GDP (expenditure-based), population, and per capita GDP; subnational entities are in decreasing order by per-capita GDP. For illustrative purposes, average personal income from tax returns are included. These show that while there is a corollation between GDP and personal income, there is a substantial gap which represents both the two year lag between sources and amounts directed to capital investment. This gap is particularly large in regions with significant resource-extraction sectors. The gap also reflects net exports as it is positive in the major resource extracting regions.
Good stats. Quebec's GDP/head of 44K is actually higher than I thought. That being said, I think it's more likely to come down as opposed to going up if Quebec was an independent country. It will lose a lot of direct benefits (transfer payments) and indirect benefits (leveraging Canadian institutions) and will lose clout in terms of trading with the US and English Canada (by fat their biggest partners) as a small country. Bigger countries always win on trade deals - think of Walmart's business model or the axiom "the rich get richer". I just think there are more challenges than benefits to separation is my point and although they may not immediately be in trouble, the bail outs of countries (once unimaginable) is a real risk worth discussing in our modern times, especially since Quebec has a high debt-GDP ratio of 50% + their federal debt share on top of that?. It won't be pretty. There are numerous examples of serious fiscal problems all over world and Quebec is no exception, even Ontario is getting up there. That being said, I will say Quebec separatists care more about an independence than they do about economics. They are willing to take a hit in the wallet to further their cause is my impression.
On another note, I will say that Montreal and Quebec used to be the powerhouse of Canada before the separatist movement started in full force. If they can build a stable investment environment and shake off some of these socialist leanings, then I think they can survive as a nation. They have it in them but they are just not living to their potential with corruption, lack of innovation and weak productivity and growth rates. There needs to be step up from the status quo to thrive as an independent nation. It's much easier said than done and they have an uphill battle given their status post-succession from Canada is my thought.
One of the best ways to prevent a separatist win in Quebec, would be for the Government of Canada to start listing, point by point, exactly WHAT a individual person in Quebec would LOOSE, in the event of a Yes vote outcome.
Here are a few points that I think would be important to make.
Loss of Canadian citizenship, no more CPP payments, no more Canadian passports, no more EI, no more income support from Ottawa. Border control at points where Quebec territory ends. No more access to Canada for Quebec based trucks, with cargo being hauled from the Canada/ Quebec border by Canadian owned trucks.
No more Quebec members of Parliament. No more Federal jobs in Quebec. All Federal Government property in Quebec to be sold at auction, to the highest bidders, including the airports, and the St Lawrence seaway. If a independent Quebec wants to buy them............Its a cash sale.
All moveable Government of Canada assets, such as military equipment, will be removed from Quebec. The Canadian Coast Guard will no longer provide search and rescue services in Quebec. All of the Federal prisons in Quebec will be closed, and the staff made redundant. All National Parks in Quebec to be sold off to the highest bidder.
With in 24 months of a Yes vote, each Quebecer over age 18 will have to make a decision, about what they are ? If they want continue to be a Canadian citizen, they must sign a contract with the Government of Canada, and move out of Quebec, to another place in Canada. If they want to cast their lot with a independent Quebec, they have to make a formal renunciation of their Canadian citizen ship, and sink or swim with the rest of the Quebecers.
So, what does this mean for the Rest Of Canada ? No more butt kissing, no more bending over backwards to please Quebec, No more blackmail , no more need to provide French services in places where there are zero French speakers. A reduced number of MPs, and a clear path for legislation that benefits Canada, not Quebec. Trudeau and Mulcaire will have to actually make a choice about where their sentiments lie, with Quebec, or with Canada ?
No more of Quebec wagging the dog. I will be happy to see them go.
One of the best ways to prevent a separatist win in Quebec, would be for the Government of Canada to start listing, point by point, exactly WHAT a individual person in Quebec would LOOSE, in the event of a Yes vote outcome.
Here are a few points that I think would be important to make.
Loss of Canadian citizenship, no more CPP payments, no more Canadian passports, no more EI, no more income support from Ottawa. Border control at points where Quebec territory ends. No more access to Canada for Quebec based trucks, with cargo being hauled from the Canada/ Quebec border by Canadian owned trucks.
No more Quebec members of Parliament. No more Federal jobs in Quebec. All Federal Government property in Quebec to be sold at auction, to the highest bidders, including the airports, and the St Lawrence seaway. If a independent Quebec wants to buy them............Its a cash sale.
All moveable Government of Canada assets, such as military equipment, will be removed from Quebec. The Canadian Coast Guard will no longer provide search and rescue services in Quebec. All of the Federal prisons in Quebec will be closed, and the staff made redundant. All National Parks in Quebec to be sold off to the highest bidder.
With in 24 months of a Yes vote, each Quebecer over age 18 will have to make a decision, about what they are ? If they want continue to be a Canadian citizen, they must sign a contract with the Government of Canada, and move out of Quebec, to another place in Canada. If they want to cast their lot with a independent Quebec, they have to make a formal renunciation of their Canadian citizen ship, and sink or swim with the rest of the Quebecers.
So, what does this mean for the Rest Of Canada ? No more butt kissing, no more bending over backwards to please Quebec, No more blackmail , no more need to provide French services in places where there are zero French speakers. A reduced number of MPs, and a clear path for legislation that benefits Canada, not Quebec. Trudeau and Mulcaire will have to actually make a choice about where their sentiments lie, with Quebec, or with Canada ?
No more of Quebec wagging the dog. I will be happy to see them go.
Jim B.
Toronto.
There is a good reason why the people who are in power in Ottawa are there and people like you are not.
One of the best ways to prevent a separatist win in Quebec, would be for the Government of Canada to start listing, point by point, exactly WHAT a individual person in Quebec would LOOSE, in the event of a Yes vote outcome.
Here are a few points that I think would be important to make.
Loss of Canadian citizenship, no more CPP payments, no more Canadian passports, no more EI, no more income support from Ottawa. Border control at points where Quebec territory ends. No more access to Canada for Quebec based trucks, with cargo being hauled from the Canada/ Quebec border by Canadian owned trucks.
No more Quebec members of Parliament. No more Federal jobs in Quebec. All Federal Government property in Quebec to be sold at auction, to the highest bidders, including the airports, and the St Lawrence seaway. If a independent Quebec wants to buy them............Its a cash sale.
All moveable Government of Canada assets, such as military equipment, will be removed from Quebec. The Canadian Coast Guard will no longer provide search and rescue services in Quebec. All of the Federal prisons in Quebec will be closed, and the staff made redundant. All National Parks in Quebec to be sold off to the highest bidder.
With in 24 months of a Yes vote, each Quebecer over age 18 will have to make a decision, about what they are ? If they want continue to be a Canadian citizen, they must sign a contract with the Government of Canada, and move out of Quebec, to another place in Canada. If they want to cast their lot with a independent Quebec, they have to make a formal renunciation of their Canadian citizen ship, and sink or swim with the rest of the Quebecers.
So, what does this mean for the Rest Of Canada ? No more butt kissing, no more bending over backwards to please Quebec, No more blackmail , no more need to provide French services in places where there are zero French speakers. A reduced number of MPs, and a clear path for legislation that benefits Canada, not Quebec. Trudeau and Mulcaire will have to actually make a choice about where their sentiments lie, with Quebec, or with Canada ?
No more of Quebec wagging the dog. I will be happy to see them go.
Jim B.
Toronto.
What you aren't understanding is that you can't buy someone's identity, or use threats to convince them to abandon their nation. This is why despite large transfer payments to Quebec, the separatist movement is still a huge movement. If an American listed all the benefits of being part of the US don't you reject it, regardless of the economic incentives? So why would a Quebecois separatist react any differently? This is why Canada only works with a Quebec that is allowed a significant degree of autonomy. It is a bi-cultural and bi-national country.
You think Quebec is a "Nation " ? What "nation " does not have it's own currency, it's own passports, and it's own Embassies in other nations ? Quebec as it is right now does NOT have any of those signs of "nationhood ". Quebec is a farce, pretending it is a nation.
The PQ are banking on your kind of fuzzy thinking, to continue to suck money out of the rest of Canada.
By the way, I see that you live in the USA, what is your stake in this matter ? Are you a Canadian ?
You think Quebec is a "Nation " ? What "nation " does not have it's own currency, it's own passports, and it's own Embassies in other nations ? Quebec as it is right now does NOT have any of those signs of "nationhood ". Quebec is a farce, pretending it is a nation.
The PQ are banking on your kind of fuzzy thinking, to continue to suck money out of the rest of Canada.
By the way, I see that you live in the USA, what is your stake in this matter ? Are you a Canadian ?
Jim B.
Toronto.
Jim, a group of people don't need their own currency, passports, or embassies to be a "nation". They need these things to be considered an independent state. This is evident in the very definition of the word "nation":
An historically constituted, stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, ethnicity and/or psychological make-up manifested in a common cultureThe Roma are a nation without a country.The Kurdish people constitute a nation in the Middle East
The Kurds and Roma do not have currencies, or embassies, or passports, yet they are nations of people. Quebec is undoubtedly a nation, and this is why the Canadian government recognized them as one in 2006. The very reason that the Quebec independence movement exists is because the people consider themselves a different nation of people from the English-Canadians. There is a plethora of examples of nations without their own passports, currencies or embassies: Scotland, Flanders, and Catalonia come to mind. To misunderstand what it means to be a nation is to misunderstand the very reason why the Quebec independence exists.
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