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Old 06-05-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,954 posts, read 27,377,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Agreed. I'm not religious, but I found the proposed law offensive. People should be able to wear religious symbols to work, as long as they do their job without having their personal beliefs affect that job.

I saw it as racist as well. I'm glad Quebeckers have the heave ho to Marois and her backward idea.
It was a deliberate, divisive political ploy that totally backfired.

But it did raise a least a few legitimate questions that its detractors perhaps dismiss a tad too quickly.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,696 posts, read 8,769,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Speaking of respecting religion, what if I am a nudist? Should I be allow to work in the public sector completely nude?

Government should be secular. I for one will feel uncomfortable to go to the public service and served by someone in burqa, and that has nothing to do with xenophobia. Having a religion is one thing. To express it in the public service is another.
We'd have to see a photo first.

But, seriously, nudism is not a religion. Government is secular, but it operates within a democracy that allows freedom of religion, and as long as you are doing the job you are paid to do, who cares if you're wearing a cross, or a star of David etc.
It's when that religious expression interferes with the job that the job wins out.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,954 posts, read 27,377,612 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
We'd have to see a photo first.

But, seriously, nudism is not a religion. Government is secular, but it operates within a democracy that allows freedom of religion, and as long as you are doing the job you are paid to do, who cares if you're wearing a cross, or a star of David etc.
It's when that religious expression interferes with the job that the job wins out.
But some jobs requre a uniform. And some religions also require a "uniform". Which of the two wins out?
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:24 AM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,996,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Agreed. I'm not religious, but I found the proposed law offensive. People should be able to wear religious symbols to work, as long as they do their job without having their personal beliefs affect that job.

I saw it as racist as well. I'm glad Quebeckers have the heave ho to Marois and her backward idea.
That's easier said than done. A poster here wrote that religion is not like a piece of garment that you can just take off. That's mostly true.

If your religion tells you that abortion is wrong and against the will of god - how would you separate this religious belief from your profession if you were a doctor or nurse performing a difficult pregnancy? And even when you tell me that you don't let your religion affect your work ... should I easily believe you?
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:28 AM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,996,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post

But, seriously, nudism is not a religion.
Nudism need not be a religion, but nudism could be part of a religion. I could create one in a few minutes and make it sound less crazy than most religions. There are religions that ask women to cover-up from head to toe. It would only be logical to create one that promotes nudism.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,543,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
All true but it's not a total free for all either.

People make sacrifices or compromises all the time for their jobs.

Strict Catholic doctors prescribe contraception all the time.

Observant Jews who own businesses work on Saturday which is their Shabbat.

Jews and Muslims who work in restaurants handle pork products because it's on the menu. (And Muslims also serve alcohol to patrons.)
No, it's not a free-for-all either. What a religious person decides is okay within their conscience is basically what decides in your example of Jews and Muslims. On the other hand, a Muslim should not work in a bar and then say the bar cannot serve alcohol.

I will give examples from my own culture and my own family. Sometimes people DO decide that their job is more important than their religion, at least 'more important' in terms of how other, more strictly by-the-book religious people would determine it.

First, in terms of serving the state - Russian Mennonites moved to Ukraine at the invitation of Catherine the Great, who needed farmers in the steppes, and also, coincidentally, needed to displace the nomadic tribes. Mennonites moved there under the exact same "privilegium" or privileges, that they later made the move to Canada. One was that Mennonites would not serve in military positions and have their own schools in their own language. They formed, essentially, a state within a state.

Move on a Tsar or two further, and the rules changed and there was a 'Russification' programme implemented, and children had to be taught Russian. Exemption from military service was also out, although it was modified that Mennonites could serve in 'alternative' services, such the medical corps.

Some Mennonites at that point, 1874 looked to Canada and the US and that was when there was an exodus from Russia. Mennonites accounted for approx. 6% of Russian production and that was when the Russian government, afraid of losing their best farmers, offered the 'alternative' service. But for those Mennonites for whom that was too much, they moved to Canada. Others who didn't find alternative service that bad, stayed, only to move later, when war and everything else gave them no choice.

Some of the interpretations of law, as I'm sure you know, are based on common sense, not on 'what if I want to run around naked in a convent' scenarios.

The strict Catholic doctor who prescribes contraception may be acting within his own conscience in accordance with his beliefs - that HE does not use contraception within his own life, but it is not for him to force his conscience on anyone else.

If he does feel that he is impelled by his own conscience not to allow anyone to use contraception, then he needs to choose a different form of medicine to practise.

And some people, as has been noted when Christians are taken to task for being hypocrites, will always choose their jobs over their faith. That's not new, anymore than it is news that some people who hold socialist beliefs, as an example, live in a manner in their every day lives that to outsiders, appears to be at odds with their beliefs.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,543,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
Nudism need not be a religion, but nudism could be part of a religion. I could create one in a few minutes and make it sound less crazy than most religions. There are religions that ask women to cover-up from head to toe. It would only be logical to create one that promotes nudism.
You obviously haven't heard about the Doukhobors. Doukhobor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How they were treated at different times by the government was pretty ****ty. CBC had a good documentary on them. You might be able to find it on the CBC website.

Link to documentary: http://www.doukhobor.org/100-SK-Stories.htm

Last edited by netwit; 06-05-2014 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,543,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's a choice they make or at least a balance they themselves define.

What's more important to you? Wearing a burqa all the time or being a police officer?

Make your choice and fill your boots. What can I say more.
I agree with that and ironically your example as an example in my family. When my uncles decided to join the RCMP they made that choice. It was their right. If a burqa doesn't interfere with a job, then I have no issue with them at all.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,954 posts, read 27,377,612 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I agree with that and ironically your example as an example in my family. When my uncles decided to join the RCMP they made that choice. It was their right. If a burqa doesn't interfere with a job, then I have no issue with them at all.
You do know what a burqa is, don't you? It's not just a head scarf like a hijab that hides your head but leaves the face uncovered. It basically covers your entire face with just a small opening for the eyes, which is sometimes covered by a screen.

You are cool with our police officers wearing that?
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,543,509 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You do know what a burqa is, don't you? It's not just a head scarf like a hijab that hides your head but leaves the face uncovered. It basically covers your entire face with just a small opening for the eyes, which is sometimes covered by a screen.

You are cool with our police officers wearing that?
Yes, I know what burqa is. I think that it would interfere with a job as a police officer. I said IF a burqa does not interfere with a job then I am okay with it.

ETA: I posted to two separate ideas. I should have put a paragraph between them. Sorry.
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