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Old 09-17-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Murrieta California
3,038 posts, read 4,779,399 times
Reputation: 2315

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
I'm assuming that you are claiming that Canada relies on medical technology developed in the states. I disagree. Not only are medical technology developments an international effort, but they are shared and made available internationally.

CT scan - Britain
MRI scan - USA
Neurosurgery Robotic Arm - Canada

The states cannot claim that they are the geniuses and everyone else benefits. No one in Canada goes without advanced life saving medical services. People can and do have emergency MRI scans and, for example, brain surgery, in one day if needed.

Where I think there is some misunderstanding is with people who decide that they want a surgery that is not medically necessary - elective surgery - and those people do have to wait in line behind those who have a medical need.
So you think that hip and knee replacements are not medically necessary. That is absurd.

 
Old 09-17-2019, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,829,273 times
Reputation: 12084
Canada and ALL nations uses medical technologies and services developed from R&D. Most R&D is performed in the US. Why? That's where the money is. The entire medical community is basically without borders so cooperation and outsourcing is a common practice. The Germans are very very active in R&D.
 
Old 09-17-2019, 09:49 AM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,961,922 times
Reputation: 8031
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSoCal View Post
So you think that hip and knee replacements are not medically necessary. That is absurd.
It is not absurd.

I think that some people self-diagnose and tell their doctor that they need surgery when equally viable passive solutions will solve the problem. For example, obese people wear out their joints faster and are less active because of obesity. Passive options are to lose weight, become more active, strengthen the muscles surrounding a joint and postpone surgical solutions. This is not an absurd solution, it is a natural solution that is better for the patient.

That's not how obese people see it. They don't want to do the hard work to lose weight or strengthen muscles, they want surgery that is not medically necessary.
 
Old 09-17-2019, 10:02 AM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,961,922 times
Reputation: 8031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Canada and ALL nations uses medical technologies and services developed from R&D. Most R&D is performed in the US. Why? That's where the money is. The entire medical community is basically without borders so cooperation and outsourcing is a common practice. The Germans are very very active in R&D.
The states has 350 million people, Canada has 35 million people. Canada has one tenth of the population, and ranks 7th in the world for medical R & D. If the States had the same population as Canada, they wouldn't even rank in the top 10. Isn't it reasonable to recognize the remarkable and significant contributions from a country with such a small population?

Instead of chest pounding about the fact that it takes 10 times the population to equal Canada, why not recognize that the states is mediocre in the big picture and should do better?
"China, with a remarkable rise in high-quality research output in 2018, is gaining on the dominant United States. In the top 10, Australia has jostled Spain out of 10th spot."
https://www.natureindex.com/news-blo...wenty-nineteen
 
Old 09-17-2019, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,829,273 times
Reputation: 12084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
It is not absurd.

I think that some people self-diagnose and tell their doctor that they need surgery when equally viable passive solutions will solve the problem. For example, obese people wear out their joints faster and are less active because of obesity. Passive options are to lose weight, become more active, strengthen the muscles surrounding a joint and postpone surgical solutions. This is not an absurd solution, it is a natural solution that is better for the patient.

That's not how obese people see it. They don't want to do the hard work to lose weight or strengthen muscles, they want surgery that is not medically necessary.
There is no doctor I know who does on demand surgery, when there are other better options, other than cosmetic. Doctors will tell patients to seek a second opinion.

Has it ever happened? probably. Is it common? No, it is not. You go to India or South America to get on demand surgery while you walk in with a handful of cash.
 
Old 09-17-2019, 10:29 AM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,961,922 times
Reputation: 8031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
There is no doctor I know who does on demand surgery, when there are other better options, other than cosmetic. Doctors will tell patients to seek a second opinion.

Has it ever happened? probably. Is it common? No, it is not. You go to India or South America to get on demand surgery while you walk in with a handful of cash.
I blew a knee while mountain biking and had surgery within a week of the accident. That surgery was medically necessary.

Several years later, I considered the option of reconstructing the missing ligament. It wasn't necessary, but it was nice to have. I had the elective surgery with a top sports injury surgeon after those with urgent need had their surgeries. I had to wait, but so what - it was elective.

It is common for people to request elective surgeries for many reasons in Canada and in the rest of the world. Did I need the surgery, no. Did I want it, yes. Was the alternative to keep surrounding muscles strong, yes. Did I do that, yes. Did the elective surgery make a difference, don't know, but I don't have any pain in the knee 30 years after losing the anterior cruciate ligament, over-stretching the medial collateral ligament and fracturing the miniscus.

Others in my situation might have demanded a knee replacement.
 
Old 09-17-2019, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,682 posts, read 5,537,385 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Canada and ALL nations uses medical technologies and services developed from R&D. Most R&D is performed in the US. Why? That's where the money is. The entire medical community is basically without borders so cooperation and outsourcing is a common practice. The Germans are very very active in R&D.
Do you have a link to support that claim?

Drug development and clinical trials, for example, are undertaken by pharmaceutical companies. Here is a list of the world’s 100 largest pharmaceutical companies along with their locations:

https://www.datawrapper.de/_/3qmpF/

The U.S. is the location of 4 of the top 10, not “most” of the top 10.

Last edited by cdnirene; 09-17-2019 at 10:58 AM..
 
Old 09-17-2019, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
5,818 posts, read 2,674,658 times
Reputation: 5707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
How do you feel about paying car insurance? What about home and contents insurance? That amounts to a few thousand dollars annually, and most people get nothing in return beyond an assurance that if something goes wrong, they will be protected.
The cost is minimal... And it's for my vehicles and home, not the rest of the nation's. I don't feel sorry for the guy with no insurance that totals his car, or who runs into me with no insurance (it's happened before).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Does a healthy society sound better than one where everyone selfishly looks after themselves and the rest can suffer or die in the street like dogs?
I'm not going to repeat the facts about the United States I've laid out a million times that either you people don't read or just ignore altogether or don't understand.
 
Old 09-17-2019, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,829,273 times
Reputation: 12084
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Do you have a link to support that claim?

Drug development and clinical trials, for example, are undertaken by pharmaceutical companies. Here is a list of the world’s 100 largest pharmaceutical companies along with their locations:

https://www.datawrapper.de/_/3qmpF/

The U.S. is the location of 4 of the top 10, not “most” of the top 10.
https://www.futurity.org/america-chi...ience-1461002/
 
Old 09-17-2019, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,682 posts, read 5,537,385 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
I don’t disagree with the article’s claim that “scientists in the United States still publish more biomedical research discoveries than those in any other country”.

That’s different than your whooper of a claim that “Most R&D is performed in the US”.

If you had even said that the U.S. performs more R&D than any single other country, I might have even bought that. Most countries in the world have a lot smaller populations. However, that’s not what you said.
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