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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 147 65.04%
No 79 34.96%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-03-2020, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,875 posts, read 38,019,680 times
Reputation: 11645

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I don't just think that's the expectation, I know it is the expectation, it always has been that way across Canada and if selling out is refused the attitude is to decimate, to crush them into oblivion and take everything away from them in retaliation. Where do you think the expression "Indian Giver" comes from? I think First Nations people are sick and tired of that same old BS of being kept under the thumb occurring over and over again in certain places. With regard to separatism in Quebec I believe the FN's are being underestimated and have a few aces in reserve up their sleeves in case they are needed.

AJ, I don't know how on earth anyone could interpret self-respect and seizing an opportunity for enterprise and betterment as recalcitrance. But I can tell you that that very attitude right there towards First Nations people is also something that has been happening to them right across Canada from day one since the first Europeans set foot on North American soil and encountered the indigenous people. "How dare they stand against me and deny me? I'll show them what's what and who's the boss around here! " says the European to himself as he hauls out every dirty trick in the book.

But I'm thinking we'll never actually find out what the First Nations people in Quebec would do in the event of separatism though because I don't believe separation is ever going to happen. It's nothing but an irrational pipe dream.

.
I am not being judgemental or condescending at all towards Indigenous peoples. There is a large non-Indigenous governance structure that exists adove their heads and that isn't going away. That they would seek to obtain the best deal and conditions and most autonomy possible within that structure seems totally logical to me.

That is what I meant by being "bought off". I should have said that as opposed to "bought out", as I don't think the goal would be to move them off their land at all. Apologies if I gave that impression.

Last edited by Acajack; 08-03-2020 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,875 posts, read 38,019,680 times
Reputation: 11645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post

AJ, I don't know how on earth anyone could interpret self-respect and seizing an opportunity for enterprise and betterment as recalcitrance.

.
When I said recalcitrant, I meant "initially unwilling to go along for the ride" or "unconvinced". I didn't mean obtuse or anything like that.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:59 AM
 
Location: The Western Hemisphere
81 posts, read 101,176 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I don't just think that's the expectation, I know it is the expectation, it always has been that way across Canada and if selling out is refused the attitude is to decimate, to crush them into oblivion and take everything away from them in retaliation. Where do you think the expression "Indian Giver" comes from? I think First Nations people are sick and tired of that same old BS of being kept under the thumb occurring over and over again in certain places. With regard to separatism in Quebec I believe the FN's are being underestimated and have a few aces in reserve up their sleeves in case they are needed.

AJ, I don't know how on earth anyone could interpret self-respect and seizing an opportunity for enterprise and betterment as recalcitrance. But I can tell you that that very attitude right there towards First Nations people is also something that has been happening to them right across Canada from day one since the first Europeans set foot on North American soil and encountered the indigenous people. "How dare they stand against me and deny me? I'll show them what's what and who's the boss around here! " says the European to himself as he hauls out every dirty trick in the book.

But I'm thinking we'll never actually find out what the First Nations people in Quebec would do in the event of separatism though because I don't believe separation is ever going to happen. It's nothing but an irrational pipe dream.

.
Just stop it.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,028,112 times
Reputation: 34871
Quote:
Originally Posted by limelightkid View Post
Just stop it.
Just stop it means the same thing as shut your mouth. So right back at ya, kid, and take a hike.

.
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Nation du Québec
242 posts, read 242,414 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I don't just think that's the expectation, I know it is the expectation, it always has been that way across Canada and if selling out is refused the attitude is to decimate, to crush them into oblivion and take everything away from them in retaliation. Where do you think the expression "Indian Giver" comes from? I think First Nations people are sick and tired of that same old BS of being kept under the thumb occurring over and over again in certain places. With regard to separatism in Quebec I believe the FN's are being underestimated and have a few aces in reserve up their sleeves in case they are needed.

AJ, I don't know how on earth anyone could interpret self-respect and seizing an opportunity for enterprise and betterment as recalcitrance. But I can tell you that that very attitude right there towards First Nations people is also something that has been happening to them right across Canada from day one since the first Europeans set foot on North American soil and encountered the indigenous people. "How dare they stand against me and deny me? I'll show them what's what and who's the boss around here! " says the European to himself as he hauls out every dirty trick in the book.

But I'm thinking we'll never actually find out what the First Nations people in Quebec would do in the event of separatism though because I don't believe separation is ever going to happen. It's nothing but an irrational pipe dream.

.
I don't see Acajack has having a bad attitude to first nations.

Also, Québec if not independent will continue our increase in autonomy. As we have continued to do over two decades. This is why we are our own nation with our national assembly and identity. Most people don't care for Canada and maybe most don't consider him or her Canadian except in an extremely dark sense.

This is evident in the arena of politics. Every major political party in Québec is to increase autonomy even more or gain independence.

The impression is given that these facts hurt the egos of some Anglos as they lose their control. While you pretend to fight for first nations if convenient...with the hopes that they will fight for you.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,839,694 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
I don't see Acajack has having a bad attitude to first nations.

Also, Québec if not independent will continue our increase in autonomy. As we have continued to do over two decades. This is why we are our own nation with our national assembly and identity. Most people don't care for Canada and maybe most don't consider him or her Canadian except in an extremely dark sense.

This is evident in the arena of politics. Every major political party in Québec is to increase autonomy even more or gain independence.

The impression is given that these facts hurt the egos of some Anglos as they lose their control. While you pretend to fight for first nations if convenient...with the hopes that they will fight for you.
Please stop calling everyone outside of Québec "Anglos." More often than not, they're NOT Anglos.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Nation du Québec
242 posts, read 242,414 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Please stop calling everyone outside of Québec "Anglos." More often than not, they're NOT Anglos.
What do you mean they are not Anglos?
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,839,694 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post
What do you mean they are not Anglos?
I mean that they (might) speak English, but, culturally, they're not Anglo. You know this.
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,028,112 times
Reputation: 34871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour185 View Post

I don't see Acajack has having a bad attitude to first nations......

..... While you pretend to fight for first nations if convenient...with the hopes that they will fight for you.
I never said he was and I already know he doesn't have a bad attitude towards First Nations people. I'm familiar enough with AJ's posts over the years to know he's basically a fair and intelligent person who, for the most part, stays neutral and practical in his posts and makes an effort to not seem judgemental or biased and I generally value AJ's opinions.

So I wasn't taking offense to anything AJ said about First Nations, but he did mention a certain concept that I take exception to; that concept of "recalcitrance" in indigenous people, which I have observed as being a common concept expressed by certain types of non-First Nations individuals in some places who believe that all First Nations people are lazy and lacking in ambition and enterprise, which I personally know to be not true. And that's why I said I don't know how anyone could interpret First Nations self-respect and seizing an opportunity for enterprise and betterment as some form of recalcitrance. It isn't. It's the opposite.

With regard to my pretensions and conveniences ..... you know nothing about who I am or what my heritage is or if I fight for any people anywhere or if I want anyone fighting for me. You don't know me. So please don't presume to speak on my behalf about who you think I am or what you think my pretensions or my fights are or who you assume I want to be fighting for me. Please speak only for yourself and keep your uninformed misconceptions, biases and accusations to yourself.

.
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Old 08-03-2020, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Nation du Québec
242 posts, read 242,414 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I mean that they (might) speak English, but, culturally, they're not Anglo. You know this.
In Québec and many countries Anglo means English speaker or culture. You have a English government, English law, English language, often the protestant religions, part of the anglosphere, et cetera. To hold power and advance in Anglo Canada this person must undertake Anglo culture.

It's like me to say, Anglo Canadians and Americans can stop saying Hispanic since most are not from Spain or the same culture as Spain. Or same goes for Latino since their not Romans. All of this is relative and changes based in perspective of culture. Québec culture is notably different than Anglo-Canada or English-Canada if you prefer it.
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