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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 147 65.04%
No 79 34.96%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2020, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I never said he was and I already know he doesn't have a bad attitude towards First Nations people. I'm familiar enough with AJ's posts over the years to know he's basically a fair and intelligent person who, for the most part, stays neutral and practical in his posts and makes an effort to not seem judgemental or biased and I generally value AJ's opinions.

So I wasn't taking offense to anything AJ said about First Nations, but he did mention a certain concept that I take exception to; that concept of "recalcitrance" in indigenous people, which I have observed as being a common concept expressed by certain types of non-First Nations individuals in some places who believe that all First Nations people are lazy and lacking in ambition and enterprise, which I personally know to be not true. And that's why I said I don't know how anyone could interpret First Nations self-respect and seizing an opportunity for enterprise and betterment as some form of recalcitrance. It isn't. It's the opposite.


.
Though I clearly explained that that is not what I meant by my post.

Also, "recalcitrant" whether in English or French, doesn't really imply any of the above anyway.
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Montreal
542 posts, read 503,269 times
Reputation: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirehose View Post
I have to admit I didn't know much about the historical stuff youve posted, and it puts a lot of things in perspective that I hadn't considered.
I'm glad I could help! The history of how Canada came to be what it is today is truly fascinating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirehose View Post
.
But is "Using Canada to our maximum benefit" really your take?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirehose View Post
Don't you see the problems that this causes for other province and how it rips apart Canada?
I can see why it may appear that way through a certain lens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirehose View Post
If it's all for Quebec or bust then where does that leave the rest of us?
In my view it leaves you free to do whatever you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirehose View Post
You just say it like you couldn't care less.
I couldn't.

I don't have any patriotism for Canada, in the Anglo sense of the word.

It happens to be where I am born and for reasons outside of my control I am in a form of political union with some other people.

I don't view Anglo Canadians as any different than Americans, just neighbours.

A few of them are helpful, some are neutral, and many others can't wait to tell me I'm a "pepsi".
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Old 08-04-2020, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I mean that they (might) speak English, but, culturally, they're not Anglo. You know this.
I think it really depends on who you're talking about, and often how long they've been in the country.

I do think that which language you use to live most of your life does have a significant impact on who you are culturally.

I remember hearing David Suzuki speaking about culture. He is 100% Japanese in origin but he still finds Japanese culture totally alien. He said something like "my language is English, my literature is Shakespeare, my music is..." and so on and so on.

So I think culture is mostly learned and acquired, and not something we necessarily have in our bones simply by virtue of our 21AndMe DNA profile.

Obviously people with similar 21AndMe profiles often have similar cultural characteristics, but that's by virtue of culture being "shown" to people, by their parents, families or wider society (where the culture of a specific 21AndMe profile is dominant).

I have members of my family who have the exact same background as I do (French-speaking Canadian with roots going back 400 years in Canada) and yet some people I know here in Quebec who were born abroad have more francophone Canadian culture in them than my relatives (who do not live in Quebec).

My kids have multiple friends born of immigrant parents who don't have a drop of New France settler blood in their bodies but who are more "French Canadian" culturally than their first cousins who live in Ontario (the children of some of my siblings and my wife's).
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,624 posts, read 3,411,405 times
Reputation: 5556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
... something we necessarily have in our bones simply by virtue of our 21AndMe DNA profile....
I think you mean "23 and Me." I'm sure that 21 chromosomes would produce something, but it might not be anything recognizable.
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
I think you mean "23 and Me." I'm sure that 21 chromosomes would produce something, but it might not be anything recognizable.
Yes, you're right! Thanks!
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Old 08-04-2020, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,326,230 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I mean that they (might) speak English, but, culturally, they're not Anglo. You know this.
If it makes you feel better, the francophones are all "English" in my culture.
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Old 08-04-2020, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
If it makes you feel better, the francophones are all "English" in my culture.
Thanks for the compliment... I think.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,326,230 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Thanks for the compliment... I think.
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Old 08-04-2020, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Alberta
47 posts, read 32,177 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
I'm glad I could help! The history of how Canada came to be what it is today is truly fascinating.

Yes.

I can see why it may appear that way through a certain lens.

In my view it leaves you free to do whatever you want.

I couldn't.

I don't have any patriotism for Canada, in the Anglo sense of the word.

It happens to be where I am born and for reasons outside of my control I am in a form of political union with some other people.

I don't view Anglo Canadians as any different than Americans, just neighbours.

A few of them are helpful, some are neutral, and many others can't wait to tell me I'm a "pepsi".
That's surprisingly more reasonable than I thought.

I made some comments in the Decline of French thread about Quebec that in retrospect may have really misjudged Quebec's stance towards other provinces. What you are saying isn't too different from what a lot of Albertans feel. I've never heard it told from this perspective, so that could be my own lack of exposure talking. Basically you support a more devolved style of Canadian government?
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirehose View Post
That's surprisingly more reasonable than I thought.

I made some comments in the Decline of French thread about Quebec that in retrospect may have really misjudged Quebec's stance towards other provinces. What you are saying isn't too different from what a lot of Albertans feel. I've never heard it told from this perspective, so that could be my own lack of exposure talking. Basically you support a more devolved style of Canadian government?
Wasn't that what the Meech Lake accord was all about?

It was torpedoed by a number of provinces and public opinion in the ROC, and the fallout ended up re-energizing the Quebec independence movement in the 1990-1995 period, and even beyond.
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