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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 147 65.04%
No 79 34.96%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-18-2022, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Ethno-Nation states are not a universal mold for a successful country, in fact if any of the lessons of the 20th century have taught, theyre an unrealistic pipe dream that comes at the expense of ethnic minorities. Most countries in Easrern Europe are just as “fabricated” as Canada supposedly is. What’s a Macedonian vs. a Bulgarian really? What’s a Croat vs a Serb? Sorry but from a Canadians perspective, people need to stop being babies and learn to coexist without blowing each other up. Where is this sense of entitlement that every ethnic group deserves their own independent nation state?
Actually, this misrepresents the meaning of "entitlement".

Entitlement is saying "I've got mine, Jack" and "no soup for you" when you've got your own independent state that you control but want to deny that right to others. (If they would like to follow that path, of course.)

I don't think the argument of a NO VACANCY sign or "no room at the inn" at the UN general assembly hall is a valid one.
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Old 07-18-2022, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Ethno-Nation states are not a universal mold for a successful country, in fact if any of the lessons of the 20th century have taught, theyre an unrealistic pipe dream that comes at the expense of ethnic minorities.
No one said that small ethno-states are necessarily more successful. Some are successful, and some aren't.

There are also successful large multi-national states (like Canada) and others that are similar in nature are disasters.

Now, for fun, look up the countries with the highest human development index or wealthiest in terms of per capita GDP.
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Old 07-18-2022, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebec Is My Country View Post

I think that Quebec is doing great, personally thanks to the CAQ. It's a good deal!

Now Quebec moves into the territory of an autonomous nation with all of the full benefits of Canada's union.
Whether people like it or not, give or take some bumps on the road, this is a pretty accurate take on reality.
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Old 07-18-2022, 07:11 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,674 posts, read 3,095,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Actually, this misrepresents the meaning of "entitlement".

Entitlement is saying "I've got mine, Jack" and "no soup for you" when you've got your own independent state that you control but want to deny that right to others. (If they would like to follow that path, of course.)

I don't think the argument of a NO VACANCY sign or "no room at the inn" at the UN general assembly hall is a valid one.
Are you saying Canada is a country like this? I wasn’t saying there should never be more countries allowed. Fascism tried to keep Empires together by imposing a dominant culture on others and trying to erase the smaller cultures. No one is advocating this. On the other hand there’s multi-ethnic countries like India, which, while they have their flaws are much better off being unified
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Old 07-18-2022, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
On the other hand there’s multi-ethnic countries like India, which, while they have their flaws are much better off being unified
We actually have no idea if India, which is pretty fractious, would be better off as a bunch of smaller independent states.
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Old 07-18-2022, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Are you saying Canada is a country like this?
Canada isn't quite like this, no. Though owing to its diversity, Canada has plenty of people who have residual allegiances to other homelands, and who espouse their nationalism and self-determination (often very strong and not always nicely incarnated) while at the same time can't even understand - much less have any sympathy for - the fact that French-speaking Canadians want to continue to exist in some capacity.

It can be very hypocritical at times.
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Old 07-18-2022, 10:02 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,674 posts, read 3,095,203 times
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I think what your saying is a bit of a hyperbole. Where’s the threat to the existence of French? English has been declining in Quebec for 50 years. Technically, French Canadians might be the largest single ethnic group in Canada, because English Canadians are not really a single cultural or ethnic group. I think it’s clear in history that the decline of regional languages in the 19th and 20th centuries was deliberately done by governments who wanted to promote a dominant culture. Franco wanted all of Spain to speak the Castilian language for example, and the French government thought Occitan should be eliminated in favour of the Parisian dialect. Those type of factors in Canada today are only at play within Quebec itself trying to orchestrate the elimination of English.
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Old 07-18-2022, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
English is most definitely NOT declining in Quebec at the moment.

Even most of the anglo rights crowd in Quebec has largely stopped using the "line" that English is declining.

There's been a notable shift in their discourse away from that and more along the lines of: "well, what can we do? it's the natural order of things! why resist? it would great if French could continue to maintain itself but what can you do if you live in a shoe?".
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Old 07-18-2022, 10:39 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,674 posts, read 3,095,203 times
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It used to be what, 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 in Quebec were English? Now it’s like 1 in 6. What percentage would be comfortable and make French feel safe?
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Old 07-18-2022, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,555,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Canada is a very successful country and one of the best places in the world to live, but it is almost the archetype of a fabricated or artificial country.

In fact it is almost more like a continent-spanning empire with defined, non-expansionist boundaries than a true country or nation
Aren't all countries " fabricated" ?

From space you don't see lines like on a map.

I'm not sure what you mean by " true " country or nation.

Can you give an example of what you consider a true country and why?
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