Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement? (buy, assessment, kindergarten)

[Bonjour185]

Originally Posted by fusion2

First part - Did I use the term racist? He went down the road of dividing up the votes by various groups I didn't!

You are using the tried and true anglophone method of twisting meaning to make us look racist. It used to be that we were not quite white enough, and by nature of blood dumber and stupid compared to anglos. Now we are by nature racist & xenophobic....Do you want to discredit a Québecois to the anglophone world? Twist words to make him look racist. Job well done!

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Bonjour185

If we have to discuss this basic topic, then you know less about Québec than imagined.



You think that we rejected seperation early this year. I dont blame you because this is how it is portrayed in anglophone media. They say it is a huge blow. But they dont tell you it is not seperation but Marois that is the unpopular one. I shudder thinking about Marois in office. I dont blame you because without knowing the language of the country how can you possibly know the reality? You only see the view in the anglophone media and what is there in English when you take a trip in Montréal.

I hate to break this to you but you do not know Québec as you claim. If you do not know french than how can one possibly say they know Québec? Imagine, a Chinese person said that they know the US when they don't speak English. All they see is what is on the Chinese media. But you still speak like an athoritative voice on Québecois affairs without knowing the easiest things. This is why it isn't working. Why not admit you know nothing and try to learn? Instead you know nothing and identify as an expert.

You suggest that all anglophones become fluent in French to finish school? That is a big suggestion coming from a guy who doesn't know French himself. Apparantley even this is too much to ask. In any event, it has been tried and anglos are opposed to this. Oh you ask my opinion on the best path to follow? Independence. I put my faith in the promises of Canada in 1995 and nothing has been delivered. If you must know I didn't vote PQ in april either. But I know that with time this is the ultimate goal. If something better comes along I will consider it, but I have learned through years that these promises of devolution are only more broken promises in a long line. I am not going to run out and mindlessly vote for any seperatist because it is not something I believe can be rushed into. I am part of your 60% so maybe it is time to evaluate your calculations.

Wow you're an awesome stand up type of guy... Just because I don't speak French you shoot me because I made the suggestion that everyone in the R.O.C should be required to speak French in order to get a High School Diploma and it should be a part of the curriculum - what a bridge builder to the future you are.. Right now I'm struggling to speak Spanish lol (my partner is from Venezuela), i'm trying but sure if from a young age I was exposed to French or other languages in School it would have been easier for me and yes I still think in spite of your assaults that it should be a requirement. Having said that, for some nothing would ever possibly be good enough because ultimately building bridges is not an objective. Speaking of language, English is one of the dominant languages in the world - it may be second or third in total number of speakers but it most certainly is the most International language particularly with respect to business - I think English Canada gets a bit of an unfair rap for that - its a much bigger thing than just English Canada -remember P.E.T and sleeping next to an Elephant!?

You say I don't understand Quebec and of course I am not going to understand it to the same degree a Quebecer sees it - how can I? You think just because you speak English or see more English Cad or more likely English American media than I see French Cad media you understand every other region/culture or people in the rest of the country - well I can assure you - you don't either.. I can't understand what its like to be a Newfoundlander, we have a massive country but does this mean we should split it all up - in my view no I don't think we should because as much as some of us think we are so different, there are so many things than bind us together that go beyond language and even culture.. We all built this country into what it is and Quebec has been as integral to it as any other Province and arguable more so than most! What is factual is that I do indeed have more friends and connections with Quebec than any other province. Are you saying one has to speak French to have personal/work connections with Quebec?

As far as being an authoritative voice on Quebec - I never made such a claim - I did state that the majority of voters in Quebec don't support separation.. How this can be disputed is beyond me..Being authoratative - nope I'm just one more clown in this C/D show lol...

Let me ask you a Question since you think I don't understand Quebec - should Anglophone votes regarding a referendum in Quebec be respected or rejected even if the Anglophone meets voting requirements? Which votes in a Quebec referendum should be respected and what would your requirements be?

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Bonjour185

You are using the tried and true anglophone method of twisting meaning to make us look racist. It used to be that we were not quite white enough, and by nature of blood dumber and stupid compared to anglos. Now we are by nature racist & xenophobic....Do you want to discredit a Québecois to the anglophone world? Twist words to make him look racist. Job well done!

This is complete nonsense would someone bust out the violin... You're twisting around like a pretzel now bud lol...

Remember the game Twister - that is what you're playing now..

[ILikeMike91]

Originally Posted by fusion2

This is complete nonsense would someone bust out the violin... You're twisting around like a pretzel now bud lol...

Remember the game Twister - that is what you're playing now..

Not exactly turning out to be the best ambassador, eh?

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by ILikeMike91

Not exactly turning out to be the best ambassador, eh?

Its not a requirement for me to be an Ambassador towards everyone - especially those with such juvenile rantings who aren't bringing much to the table constructively.. I'm entitled to express myself as is anyone else on these forums as well! I still haven't recieved a response from him regarding why he needed to underscore which way the votes went in the last referendum amongst Francophones and Anglophones.. To me it shouldn't make a difference but he made that point than just dropped it.. What exactly was he inferring...!!?? He kinda made an inference that really Anglophone votes really shouldn't count - that's what I got... What are your requirements in terms of who would be able to vote in a referendum in Quebec?

Actually - you were very young at the time of the last referendum - but this is what one of the biggest champions for Separatism stated just after the result were official

I quote Quebec Premier Mr Jacques Parizeau right after the referendum results became official..

"
"My friends""It's lost, but not by much. But it's a success, it's a success in a way. Please, let's stop talking about the francophones of Quebec, would you? Let's talk about us: at 60% we voted for (independence). We fought well, and we ... we even showed clearly what we wanted. And we missed by a small margin, by a few tens of thousands of voices. Well, in a case like this, what do we do? We spit in our hands and start all over again."I really wanted this to go through. I wanted it so badly, like all of you, that it would get through. We were so close to a country. Well, it's been delayed a little ... not for long, not for long ... we won't wait 15 years this time ... no, no ...""It's true, it's true that we have been defeated, but basically by what? By money and ethnic votes, essentially. So all it means is that, in the next round, instead of being 60 or 61 per cent to vote YES, we will be 63 or 64 per cent and it will suffice. That's all. But now my friends, in the months that will come, we are going to... Listen: Some people got so afraid that the temptation to take revenge is going to be something! And never again will it be more important to have a Parti Québécois government to protect us until the next time"

[hobbesdj]

Originally Posted by fusion2

Its not a requirement for me to be an Ambassador towards everyone - especially those with such juvenile rantings who aren't bringing much to the table constructively.. I'm entitled to express myself as is anyone else on these forums as well! I still haven't recieved a response from him regarding why he needed to underscore which way the votes went in the last referendum amongst Francophones and Anglophones.. To me it shouldn't make a difference but he made that point than just dropped it.. What exactly was he inferring...!!?? He kinda made an inference that really Anglophone votes really shouldn't count - that's what I got... What are your requirements in terms of who would be able to vote in a referendum in Quebec?

Actually - you were very young at the time of the last referendum - but this is what one of the biggest champions for Separatism stated just after the result were official

I quote Quebec Premier Mr Jacques Parizeau right after the referendum results became official..

"
"My friends""It's lost, but not by much. But it's a success, it's a success in a way. Please, let's stop talking about the francophones of Quebec, would you? Let's talk about us: at 60% we voted for (independence). We fought well, and we ... we even showed clearly what we wanted. And we missed by a small margin, by a few tens of thousands of voices. Well, in a case like this, what do we do? We spit in our hands and start all over again."I really wanted this to go through. I wanted it so badly, like all of you, that it would get through. We were so close to a country. Well, it's been delayed a little ... not for long, not for long ... we won't wait 15 years this time ... no, no ...""It's true, it's true that we have been defeated, but basically by what? By money and ethnic votes, essentially. So all it means is that, in the next round, instead of being 60 or 61 per cent to vote YES, we will be 63 or 64 per cent and it will suffice. That's all. But now my friends, in the months that will come, we are going to... Listen: Some people got so afraid that the temptation to take revenge is going to be something! And never again will it be more important to have a Parti Québécois government to protect us until the next time"

Seriously, the PQ should hire you to play the role of self-absorbed Anglo #12458998. They could just let you talk and watch their support surge.

Where is the inference that Anglophone votes shouldn't count?

Here is his supposedly ethnocentric quote:

Originally Posted by Bonjour185

The strategy of working with 60% (a generous number) has only succeeded at one thing: preventing Québec from secession. The economy is still on the rails, lots of corruption, people disagree with foreign policy... And how many of this 60% are firmly against secession? Some think the economy must be fixed for independence and what better than to have Canada pay for it. Some still are open to secession if they do not get what they want in Canada. Maybe 30% are strongly against secession at all costs, and how many are francophones?

The only "inferrence" is that among the 30% of strongly anti-secessionist voters, the numbers of francophones (the important minority that makes Canada "bilingual") are disproportionately low. I see nothing whatsoever that infers that certain groups should be stripped of the vote. Yet two pages later, you are posting Jacques Parizeau quotes and erecting strawmen for the "Quebec is racist" angle.

[BruSan]

Originally Posted by hobbesdj

Seriously? Where did he say anything remotely racist?



Funny, because here is a guy who claims to be a "no" voter and your primary tactics so far are telling him what's what and painting him as a closet racist. You claim to be interested in working together? On whose terms?

Where did fusion accuse him of racism?

I'm not getting this whole thing?

A person accuses another poster of twisting his words so it looks like he's a racist when in fact no such thing has taken place and no such accusation has basis in fact but you jump on to add to the nonsense with a further admonishment towards fusion based upon something that he did not do and never happened!

I'm old I know, but am I the only one having a problem keeping up with this stuff?

Why can't we discuss this stupid topic without all the histrionics? Disagreements are healthy only so long as they stay civil.

[Bonjour185]

Originally Posted by hobbesdj

Seriously, the PQ should hire you to play the role of self-absorbed Anglo #12458998. They could just let you talk and watch their support surge.

Where is the inference that Anglophone votes shouldn't count?

Here is his supposedly ethnocentric quote:

The only "inferrence" is that among the 30% of strongly anti-secessionist voters, the numbers of francophones (the important minority that makes Canada "bilingual") are disproportionately low. I see nothing whatsoever that infers that certain groups should be stripped of the vote. Yet two pages later, you are posting Jacques Parizeau quotes and erecting strawmen for the "Quebec is racist" angle.

Bingo! We have a winner!

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Bonjour185

Bingo! We have a winner!

So question for you - Should Anglophone votes count in a Quebec referendum? What would your requirements be.. Its really a simply question.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by BruSan

Where did fusion accuse him of racism?

I'm not getting this whole thing?

.

I was probing him to find out which votes he felt mattered in a Quebec referendum, what his requirements would be.. He has made inferences but still hasn't answered my questions clearly.. An accusation of racism -nope but yes.. trying to crack open the egg to see what is inside...