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Old 09-15-2015, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,144,050 times
Reputation: 3738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Then you clearly haven't experienced the daily commuting nightmare in Boston along I-95, or the 3-hour long rush hour drives in Istanbul or Shanghai. Within the North America context, Ontario's 400-series highway system is probably one of the most comprehensive and well-maintained regional road system on this continent.

I'm really glad people like you don't live in Toronto. Toronto City Council is currently laying out plans to completely retire Gardner Express and convert the downtown section to mixed-use pedestrian and vehicle boulevard with a new Waterfront LRT, and there is overwhelming support among residents to take down Gardiner altogether and create pedestrian-only streets. I'd be more than happy to take my electric Regional Express Rail, the new streetcars, and an efficient public transit system over another 16-lane monstrosity freeway cutting across the city. Thanks but no thanks, you can keep your freeways in Florida or whatever suburbia you are from.
I agree that the future for Toronto should absolutely NOT be more freeways - no, non, n„o, 沒有.... - zilch.. The only way to go is Rapid Transit!!!... We could create another 401 sized freeway East/West and it would still be an overall traffic clusterf*c* - NO MORE HIGHWAYS IN TORONTO LOL... SUBWAYS AND REGIONAL HEAVY RAIL..!!
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Old 09-15-2015, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,175 posts, read 1,753,611 times
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Back in the 1950s and 1960s, Toronto had big plans for expressways and freeways.

The Gardiner was to go all the way across the bottom of Toronto, following Kingston Road through the Beaches, and meet up with the 401 in Scarborough. You can still see remnants of this plan where Kingston Road merges with the 401: a divided highway.

The Spadina Expressway (today's Allen Road) was to run from the 401 to the Gardiner. Today, it only runs south from the 401 to Eglinton.

The 400 was likewise to run south to the Gardiner. Today, it becomes Black Creek Drive south of the 401, and ends up nowhere near the Gardiner.

The Don Valley Parkway was constructed, and connects the 401 (and 404) with the Gardiner.

The Crosstown Expressway was supposed to connect the DVP with the Spadina Expressway. It would follow the approximate alignment of Davenport Road. Unlike the others mentioned so far, the Crosstown was never started.

What stopped all these projects was the opposition of Torontonians. The Spadina Expressway would have run down Spadina, decimating parts of Forest Hill and Chinatown. Same for the 400, down Jane Street and Swansea and area. The Crosstown would have run south of the CPR right-of-way, through Moore Park and Little Italy. The Gardiner would have run right through the Beaches. Hundreds of houses would have been expropriated, thousands of residents displaced; and in the end, Torontonians opted to keep their neighbourhoods, rather than see them fall to expressways.

Toronto has traditionally been anti-car, from what I've seen. Back in the 1980s, then-North York mayor Mel Lastman made a big push for a domed stadium, to be located on CFB Downsview (which the federal government had indicated it would be abandoning). "Plenty of room for parking," was one of Mel's selling points. But the powers-that-be disregarded Mel's plan, in favour of locating the stadium downtown, "so people would take public transit."

Then, Toronto disregarded expanding public transit, and we have the problems that we do today.
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
9,641 posts, read 6,625,530 times
Reputation: 12103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Then you clearly haven't experienced the daily commuting nightmare in Boston along I-95, or the 3-hour long rush hour drives in Istanbul or Shanghai. Within the North America context, Ontario's 400-series highway system is probably one of the most comprehensive and well-maintained regional road system on this continent.

I'm really glad people like you don't live in Toronto. Toronto City Council is currently laying out plans to completely retire Gardner Express and convert the downtown section to mixed-use pedestrian and vehicle boulevard with a new Waterfront LRT, and there is overwhelming support among residents to take down Gardiner altogether and create pedestrian-only streets. I'd be more than happy to take my electric Regional Express Rail, the new streetcars, and an efficient public transit system over another 16-lane monstrosity freeway cutting across the city. Thanks but no thanks, you can keep your freeways in Florida or whatever suburbia you are from.
WTF??? I specifically said I don't like the Gardiner, and am very much aware that there are plans to retire it (thank GOD!)
By the way, I LIVE in Florida, but am definitely not from here. We suffer from the same problem I see in Toronto with the 401: One major artery cutting across the city with a few secondary but inefficient expressways/toll roads going around it. In what way do you think I support this? I clearly said it was a major problem with Toronto. Not sure what these "freeways" are that you're talking about, other than I-4, I-75 and I-95. In my area, there's really only one freeway along with a few toll roads. What we lack is a comprehensive and functional public transit system.
Also, GTA is the definition of suburbia -- not much different than Florida's major cities.

P.S., how do you know I haven't lived in Toronto?
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
9,641 posts, read 6,625,530 times
Reputation: 12103
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I agree that the future for Toronto should absolutely NOT be more freeways - no, non, n„o, 沒有.... - zilch.. The only way to go is Rapid Transit!!!... We could create another 401 sized freeway East/West and it would still be an overall traffic clusterf*c* - NO MORE HIGHWAYS IN TORONTO LOL... SUBWAYS AND REGIONAL HEAVY RAIL..!!
This.
I don't particularly support more freeways -- just an efficient ALTERNATIVE. A better rail/subway system would go a long way in the GTA.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:45 AM
 
2,562 posts, read 2,180,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352 View Post
WTF??? I specifically said I don't like the Gardiner, and am very much aware that there are plans to retire it (thank GOD!)
By the way, I LIVE in Florida, but am definitely not from here. We suffer from the same problem I see in Toronto with the 401: One major artery cutting across the city with a few secondary but inefficient expressways/toll roads going around it. In what way do you think I support this? I clearly said it was a major problem with Toronto. Not sure what these "freeways" are that you're talking about, other than I-4, I-75 and I-95. In my area, there's really only one freeway along with a few toll roads. What we lack is a comprehensive and functional public transit system.
Also, GTA is the definition of suburbia -- not much different than Florida's major cities.

P.S., how do you know I haven't lived in Toronto?
Maybe you should've stated your opinions more succinctly? Supporting a public transit alternative is vastly different from proposing another 16-lane freeway. Even die-hard car fans like Rob Ford would never go so far as to propose building another freeway across the city. He was smart enough to stick the the "subway subway subway" spiel just to appease public opinion, even though we all know building that kind of subway network in Toronto is a complete joke given the city's financing capabilities.

As for having public transit alternative, there are at least two major projects that are taking place as we speak just within the city of Toronto:

Smart Track - which will extend from Mississauga Airport Center in the West to Unionville and Scarborough in the east. This plan will most likely be incorporated into the first phase province's Regional Express Rail inter-city rapid transit network:


Eglinton Crosstown Rapid Transit - which covers the exact "East-West" transport artery that you have been posting all alone. It runs along Eglinton Avenue, from the border of Mississauga to Kennedy GO Station in Scarborough, and is under construction as we speak. The underground-above ground hybrid line is slated for opening in 2020:



Lastly, I'm not sure how can anyone ignore the GO Transit network when discussing "East-West" transport in Toronto. I take the Lakeshore West GO train everyday from Etobicoke to Union Station everyday - the most convenient, comfortable, and efficient transport mode that extends from Niagara all the way to Ajax. And the best part? The train comes every 10 MINUTES during rush hour, and 30-minutes guaranteed all day, 7 days a week. Why would I want to drive on some freeway when I can sit comfortably on a train and arrive to work on time, stress-free, everyday?

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Old 09-16-2015, 12:48 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,268,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352 View Post
This pretty much sums up my issues with the 401 in a nutshell:

Not Enough Alternates to the 401
There are practically no alternate routes to the 401 that will take you across Toronto in an east-west direction. There is the QEW and the Gardiner Expressway, but they go through the downtown core and are more jammed than the 401. There is also the 407 ETR, which is not as congested and runs more north of the city. There is only one problem with the 407 ETR: itís a toll road. The toll rates arenít even close to reasonable.
Seems reasonable price to me.

https://www.407etr.com/en/highway/highway/map.html

If I travel to St Clair station from King, the return trip costs $6 on the subway, at a fraction of the distance. Why is $6.45 "not close to reasonable" to you? How much to you want to pay? Why do people expect expressways to be free? Don't tell me the working families are already living paycheck to paycheck and can't pay this every day. You are not suppose to travel from Burlington to Pickering on a daily basis to start with.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,144,050 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352 View Post
This.
I don't particularly support more freeways -- just an efficient ALTERNATIVE. A better rail/subway system would go a long way in the GTA.
This is what I've been saying to you though, anyone who works or lives DT and want to go to Scarborough would be a complete loon to drive that.. You might as well just take the subway!! So you do have an alternative and actually Scarbourough is decently connected to the DT core via subway. Also, why would anyone drive from west of the city to the DT core along the Gardiner only to connect to the 401 via the DVP -they would be a nut case it just makes zero sense and is just asking for problems - just take the 403 or 401 or 407 (I think Botti demonstrated its cost isn't that unreasonable - I've gotten hit by lots of road toll charges in the U.S!) and bypass such a nonsensical routing - sorry to sound like a broken record but unless you're specifically going DT Do not take the Gardiner to the DVP to the 401 it makes no sense!! This is what I'm still not getting about your posts Arcenal - you're looking at flow through the city from a very singular and illogical perspective that most native Torontonians wouldn't even touch and that visitors or those transiting through should simply research in order to avoid.

Last edited by fusion2; 09-16-2015 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,144,050 times
Reputation: 3738
Ok so I know a few people really get a high from Toronto bashing but here is a list of the top 10 most congested cities in Canamerica (They say N.A but clearly Mexico and specifically Mexico City was not evaluated here otherwise it would be number 1 by far).. Anyone who has been to Mexico City would agree Toronto's problems are BABY problems in comparison when it comes to traffic.

Anyway Toronto is ranked 6th most congested - so not great but sure not the WORST either which is L.A btw... Toronto isn't even the most congested CAD city that honour falls to Vancouver - Sorry Nat

and OMG can you believe this Montreal is ranked 9th not too far away from the dreaded Toronto Monster..... imagine that - do you need a hug Arcenal awwwwwww... its ok - its ok...

Los Angeles - In Photos: 10 Most Traffic-Congested Cities In North America - Forbes

Last edited by fusion2; 09-16-2015 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
9,641 posts, read 6,625,530 times
Reputation: 12103
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Ok so I know a few people really get a high from Toronto bashing but here is a list of the top 10 most congested cities in Canamerica (They say N.A but clearly Mexico and specifically Mexico City was not evaluated here otherwise it would be number 1 by far).. Anyone who has been to Mexico City would agree Toronto's problems are BABY problems in comparison when it comes to traffic.

Anyway Toronto is ranked 6th most congested - so not great but sure not the WORST either which is L.A btw... Toronto isn't even the most congested CAD city that honour falls to Vancouver - Sorry Nat

and OMG can you believe this Montreal is ranked 9th not too far away from the dreaded Toronto Monster..... imagine that - do you need a hug Arcenal awwwwwww... its ok - its ok...

Los Angeles - In Photos: 10 Most Traffic-Congested Cities In North America - Forbes
Hey now, I said the LAYOUT was good. Most of the problems with Montreal's traffic are the result of roads constantly being in need of major repair due to cheap infrastructure: crumbling Turcot Interchange , crumbling Champlain Bridge, crumbling Mercier Bridge, etc.
Last time I was there, I was heading to Brossard via the Lafontaine tunnel, and the maze the construction had me go through was outrageous!
So yeah, most of Montreal's issues are due to that. Montreal has a more-than-adequate puclic transit system to get around.
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
9,641 posts, read 6,625,530 times
Reputation: 12103
This kind of garbage is all-too-common in Montreal:

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