"Affordable Housing" in Ballantyne (Charlotte: eat, budget, estimate)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are quite a number who don't want the best...sad, but true. The daily truancy numbers attest to that. A good number of the kids are from single parent homes, or live with other family members...and often are moving from place to place during the year. In short, very little stability.
At a wealthy school like say, Selwyn or Sharon, a lot of the parents are college-educated, and many have advanced degrees. Not true of high-poverty schools - a lot of the parents didn't graduate HS themselves. A lot of parents do work - and often commute long-distances to get to low-wage jobs - and don't have time to volunteer in schools. PTA participation is very low, but to say that low-income school PTA's could raise funds as easily as any other PTAs is simply not true.
It will take a lot more than just volunteers to improve the schools in high-poverty areas. It's not as simple as that.
For example, take a rising KG student. At a school like Sharon or Selwyn, the student will likely have had access to a high-quality daycare or preschool. His or her parents probably have read to them since day 1. Maybe the student has gone to Music Together, story times at the local libraries, regular visits to Discovery Place, Nature Museum and Imaginon...perhaps a quality weekday school program at Myers Park United Methodist....On the other hand, at a high poverty school like 1st Ward or Barringer, if a student is lucky, they may have attended a CMS Pre-K program. Who do you think is better prepared and is more likely to succeed?
In a recent book about innovation and learning, the authors estimate that by the age of 3, children of college-educated parents have heard their parents speak 48 million words, vs 13 million words from parents on welfare....
So if they don't want the best, why would I want to spend my tax money on them???
EVERYONE has the same chance to get good education. I moved from another country, when I was 19. Moved here alone, no parents, no relatives, no firends, with a different native language. I became illegal after my visa had expired and I figure out the way to legalize myself. I worked hard to put myself through school, while living with 4 roommates and working 12-16 hour days... IT IS DOABLE, but a person must want it!!!!!!! Ohh the school I went was in Boston, much more expensive than anything in Charlotte. They simply do not want it, they are content with gov-nt hand outs. If you have never been illegal you will never know what it feels like being afraid to apply for a pizza-making job if they ask for papers, so ANYONE who was born here has so much more advantage that they don't realize. That is why I am absolutely against helping any healthy adults and will never do!!! Get a job!
So the issues seem to be with City government, planners, developers etc. I get that. I too live very close to the site at Prov. Rd. West. It is also undeniable that there is an undercurrent of anger and resentment at the people that were to be the residents in such a development. We cannot assume all are lazy, having kids for welfare checks, non- working, unconcerned for children's education, and all of the other positions taken here. There are many productive, highest-bracket-tax-paying, entrepreneurs- providing-employment, executive- level folks who grew up, or at least, spent a significant amount of childhood in public housing. I should know, I grew up in the "projects", and all of my previous descriptions fit me, my husband, and many other of my cohorts. Our English is immaculate, we are extremely well-educated, you could not tell where we where raised. Some of you may even work for one of us. ( Hee-Hee). So, Lets be angry at the real issues, and keep an open mind and have compassion for those less advantaged. The pathological citizens of these type of residences may "steal the thunder" from those who are trying to better their situations, but, there are so many more citizens who just want a chance to do better.
So the issues seem to be with City government, planners, developers etc. I get that. I too live very close to the site at Prov. Rd. West. It is also undeniable that there is an undercurrent of anger and resentment at the people that were to be the residents in such a development. We cannot assume all are lazy, having kids for welfare checks, non- working, unconcerned for children's education, and all of the other positions taken here. There are many productive, highest-bracket-tax-paying, entrepreneurs- providing-employment, executive- level folks who grew up, or at least, spent a significant amount of childhood in public housing. I should know, I grew up in the "projects", and all of my previous descriptions fit me, my husband, and many other of my cohorts. Our English is immaculate, we are extremely well-educated, you could not tell where we where raised. Some of you may even work for one of us. ( Hee-Hee). So, Lets be angry at the real issues, and keep an open mind and have compassion for those less advantaged. The pathological citizens of these type of residences may "steal the thunder" from those who are trying to better their situations, but, there are so many more citizens who just want a chance to do better.
sltterp ( I hope I got that right!) , I hear ya.
You grew up HERE, in Charlotte, in subsidized housing? Because my stepdaughter lived in subsidized housing in Kansas City and it was a totally different situation and demographic of folks than most subsidized housing situations. She was in a building that had all folks under about 40 and all were professionals starting out their lives. We couldn't believe she qualified but she did and it was a safe, clean, neat area w/ a great group of tenants.
And I don't know how they managed this, but there were no children. That may be b/c this was a renovated warehouse and all apartments were 1 -bedroom apartments. No one could have a roommate - that was part of the deal when she signed the lease.
But I have never seen a situation like that here in Charlotte - even tho there were two buildings side by side w/ that demographic (basically young people) in Kansas City.
On a related subject: with three editorials in the Charlotte Observer Sunday trouncing Ballantyne and advocating even stronger measures to make certain South Charlotte be forced to accept public housing, I must say that I have never seen a paper take a week to beat up on a sector of the community as they did.
As much as I love Charlotte, it the politicians take heed to the Observer, many are going to be voting with their feet. You can't have entitlement programs if you drive all of the affluent taxpayers out of your city. Just ask Detroit or Cleveland. I would hate to see a wonderful, thriving city collapse under its own weight.
I don't think you can compare immigrants (legal or illegal) with the situation of those who have been in generational poverty for decades here. For the most part, immigrants are here by choice. Many move here looking for an opportunity - be it for education, work, to have a better life, etc...the "American Dream", so to speak. This basic difference of being here by choice vs by birth, is a major difference between immigrants and any native-born citizen - rich or poor.
Trust me, I get that there are many parents who do not "want it"...I see it on a regular basis. The question is how to "punish" the parents without too adversely affecting the kids, creating another generation in the cycle. The kids are here whether we like it or not, now what do ,we as a society, do to try and improve their lives so that they have a chance at a better life - be it in West Charlotte, in Appalachia, on an Indian Reservation or wherever the legacy of generational poverty may exist.
I don't think you can compare immigrants (legal or illegal) with the situation of those who have been in generational poverty for decades here. For the most part, immigrants are here by choice. Many move here looking for an opportunity - be it for education, work, to have a better life, etc...the "American Dream", so to speak. This basic difference of being here by choice vs by birth, is a major difference between immigrants and any native-born citizen - rich or poor.
Trust me, I get that there are many parents who do not "want it"...I see it on a regular basis. The question is how to "punish" the parents without too adversely affecting the kids, creating another generation in the cycle. The kids are here whether we like it or not, now what do ,we as a society, do to try and improve their lives so that they have a chance at a better life - be it in West Charlotte, in Appalachia, on an Indian Reservation or wherever the legacy of generational poverty may exist.
I do see your point, the childrens are victims, its sad. But there are also many people who have kids just to get handed more money or in this case get your vote to move to a nicer area like Ballantyne. And even if this isn't everyone, we still can't reward the bad eggs just because there are a few good eggs in the mix. I'm really trying to look at this from a non-bias perspective and this what I came up with. If I was living in an area that wasn't as priviledged with a poor education system and crime around me here is what I'd do. I'd work my butt off - you don't need an education to work at a restaurant or walmart of target. And more importantly I would use this as a lesson to teach my children that this isn't what I want for their lives. I would push them to go to school regardless of the situation (because its not like we don't offer ANY school, we should be happy that there is schooling still available and there are school standards where the teachers must go by a curriculum to teach these children). I would set them up with a Brothers/Sisters program. And lastly, if i was pregnant when I was already living in a low income housing structure - I would put my baby first and myself second and i would put that child up for adoption because THATS how you improve these childrens lives.
This problem is too big of a picture to say that moving them to Ballantyne or any other nice area will solve their problems by giving them a chance to go to better school, ect. The problem lies with INSIDE the home....putting them in a nicer area will do nothing even to those that aren't theives, drug dealers, gang members, ect. So a better shot at fixing this would be to fund more money into schools, into brother/sister programs, counceling (a lot of them are deeply depressed or have other issues going on), child care expenses, police forces so more are patrolling the area to bring down crime, ect. ANYTHING but move them to another area...the problem will follow, when will we wise up and realize that.
My father (I like to refer to him as my mothers sperm donor) lives in a nice area but he just doesn't care about my brothers lives - so they live in a good school district, nice, crime free area - but he doesn't push the kids to go to school and he doesn't do anything to RAISE them right. He just lets them do whatever they want - they aren't mature enough to understand that education is so crucial these days - so they are high school drop outs. It's so sad. But my point is it doesn't matter where there home lies - its the home life that matters the most. I've seen stories where people were grown up on projects but they had a strong influence at home to push them and they end up being doctors, lawyers, ect. And then again, I've seen the opposite...
This isn't a black or white situation but moving someone to another area doesn't help anything - you need to change the SYSTEM, the FOUNDATION. Change the schools, add brother/ sister programs, LOWER the section 8 vouchers - telling them from the beginning that they will slowly be weened off of it . And when they are completely weened off, give them an ultimatium - either work or we'll take your kids out of the home until you can get back on your feet (i know it sounds harsh, but you'd be surprised to see how many people would be working by the end of the day). We're human...if we have the opportunity to have a roof over our heads, food stamps, health insurance and now people are fighting for us to live in a nicer area than why on earth would we change our situation? Man, makes me think I should quit my job...I don't ENJOY working, I just do what I have to to provide for my family.
On a related subject: with three editorials in the Charlotte Observer Sunday trouncing Ballantyne and advocating even stronger measures to make certain South Charlotte be forced to accept public housing, I must say that I have never seen a paper take a week to beat up on a sector of the community as they did.
As much as I love Charlotte, it the politicians take heed to the Observer, many are going to be voting with their feet. You can't have entitlement programs if you drive all of the affluent taxpayers out of your city. Just ask Detroit or Cleveland. I would hate to see a wonderful, thriving city collapse under its own weight.
Interesting you mentioned this. My next door neighbor said to me this weekend, after seeing the venom being spewed towards folks who have "done the right things" and managed to acquire some property and networth, - "this is the city we want to remain in? Where responsible folks are being denigrated for being responsible folks? Our tax dollars are going to support a city that not only doesn't seem to appreciate the fact that we do pay a lot of taxes, but also promotes the philosophy that we taxpayers have no rights to protect the value of that property?"
I came home and repeated that to my hubby and he said - I think we all do need to be thinking about that.
And I would like to add . . . this is one step removed from imposing "eminent domain" on a community.
Pretty ironic, b/c the folks getting the benefit of these draconian measures (low income) are NOT the ones filling the tax coffers, but the folks in high dollar sections of the city ARE. However, with the price of houses falling and a big chunk going into foreclosure . . . you tell me who is going to be funding the coffers in the future? The budget of this city keeps going up, but tax revenue (from retail sales as well) continues to FALL.
And the city decides to spend money on new recycling bins. Dang. Great stewardship, there, folks.
There are many of us thinking about these things. I believe I would rather live in a town where the city council, Mayor and commissioners welcomed responsible, taxpaying homeowners and were concerned about helping them preserve the value of their property rather than imposing a surefire method of bringing the value of property DOWN.
Some of us don't HAVE to be here in Charlotte. We can live elsewhere. And then there are the retirees . . . who is gonna STAY under these conditions?
There comes a time when title to property may not be the wisest decision . . . let someone else pay the taxes and the upkeep! And we retirees will just get in the line with the other folks looking for subsidized housing.
So who pays the taxes then? I believe there are TAX CREDITS involved with affordable housing, NO?
I don't think you can compare immigrants (legal or illegal) with the situation of those who have been in generational poverty for decades here. For the most part, immigrants are here by choice. Many move here looking for an opportunity - be it for education, work, to have a better life, etc...the "American Dream", so to speak. This basic difference of being here by choice vs by birth, is a major difference between immigrants and any native-born citizen - rich or poor.
Trust me, I get that there are many parents who do not "want it"...I see it on a regular basis. The question is how to "punish" the parents without too adversely affecting the kids, creating another generation in the cycle. The kids are here whether we like it or not, now what do ,we as a society, do to try and improve their lives so that they have a chance at a better life - be it in West Charlotte, in Appalachia, on an Indian Reservation or wherever the legacy of generational poverty may exist.
I disagree, I came from eastern european block, my parents were not wiring money to me, I had to pay for everything myself. What is poverty in your understanding? My family never had juice in the fridge, my parents bought it maybe 3 times and it would be gone in half an hour. IT was not like you open a fridge and choose (should I have orange or should I have pineapple), first time I had yougurt when I was 14 (that is when my country finally figured it out how to make it and it was considerably cheaper than Dannnon or any other kind), that is the age I got first real Barbie (when I did not need it anymore) a penpal from England sent it to me for Christmas. The only drinks we had were tea or milk or water. Soft drinks were in the house twice a year for christmas and bday. At any point of my life there I had only 1 skirt, 1 pair of jeans or pants, few sweaterts, had only 1 pair of summer sandals, 1 pair of winter boots and one pair of fall/spring boots, 1 jacket and 1 warm coat for the winter! For christmas I would get 2 toys the size that would fit in you palms, toys made out of wood and plastic, or cloth, like any child wants to get a cloth for Christmas?? I personally assisted in Foster care xmas party this year and donated tons of new toys, and let me tell you they all got at least 5 nice toys!! Are they poor in my eyes????? Of course nooooo!!!!
Everyone has opportunities in this country, for some it comes easier others have to work for it, but that's life. If you were handed your life over, maybe you feel quilty and obligated to share, as others were not so lucky, then go distribute hot meals-on-wheels at the GAringer along with anti-gang propaganda, you wont make a difference but it will make you feel better...
I worked hard for what I have and have no intensions to share, but will give counseling and step-by-step instructions on what to do and what not to do.
Why do you say that immigrants are not comparable? What stops low-income here have dreams? Nothing right. They are HAPPY with the way things are, so let them be, they don't need help. IF they were not happy they would have done something, just like immigrants do (for whom it's much harder to do anything)
I will never agree on the argument helping healthy adults here, never. If I made it, everyone who was born here can make it. period.
Interesting you mentioned this. My next door neighbor said to me this weekend, after seeing the venom being spewed towards folks who have "done the right things" and managed to acquire some property and networth, - "this is the city we want to remain in? Where responsible folks are being denigrated for being responsible folks? Our tax dollars are going to support a city that not only doesn't seem to appreciate the fact that we do pay a lot of taxes, but also promotes the philosophy that we taxpayers have no rights to protect the value of that property?"
I came home and repeated that to my hubby and he said - I think we all do need to be thinking about that.
And I would like to add . . . this is one step removed from imposing "eminent domain" on a community.
Pretty ironic, b/c the folks getting the benefit of these draconian measures (low income) are NOT the ones filling the tax coffers, but the folks in high dollar sections of the city ARE. However, with the price of houses falling and a big chunk going into foreclosure . . . you tell me who is going to be funding the coffers in the future? The budget of this city keeps going up, but tax revenue (from retail sales as well) continues to FALL.
And the city decides to spend money on new recycling bins. Dang. Great stewardship, there, folks.
There are many of us thinking about these things. I believe I would rather live in a town where the city council, Mayor and commissioners welcomed responsible, taxpaying homeowners and were concerned about helping them preserve the value of their property rather than imposing a surefire method of bringing the value of property DOWN.
Some of us don't HAVE to be here in Charlotte. We can live elsewhere. And then there are the retirees . . . who is gonna STAY under these conditions?
There comes a time when title to property may not be the wisest decision . . . let someone else pay the taxes and the upkeep! And we retirees will just get in the line with the other folks looking for subsidized housing.
So who pays the taxes then? I believe there are TAX CREDITS involved with affordable housing, NO?
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. I mentioned something like this awhile back about how Charlotte was once voted for #1 for best places to live in America and was #1 for best places to Relocate. Also, best places to live and launch, fastest growing cities, ect, ect, ect. This place has a wealth of opportunity and that is why myself and most my ny and nj transplant friends have moved here. As much as many resent us being here, it helps the city grow and be recognized. But if this kind of shadiness becomes a pattern, I'm on my way out...and I highly doubt I'll be alone.
Right before I moved here I was talking to one of my clients back in NY and I was telling him I was moving to Charlotte. And he said to me "Beautiful place to live but the politics are the worst" lol. How ironic. At the time I thought: I don't really get involved with any of that anyway, afterall I'm in my 20's so I could careless. Well, the bright side of this is that never again will I let another election go without my vote and I will educate myself much more when it comes to politics in general because it is very important. Good lesson learned...but lets hope Charlotte gets a hold of themeselves and we turn this around so that Charlotte can be the city that it currently is with the growth and the potential to become.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
