Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You can play devil's advocate all you want. I don't think it's unreasonable to tell people who cannot take care of a child on their own to not procreate. And yes, the world is too crowded. Look at what overpopulation has done to countries in Africa. That whole continent is trapped in a cycle of severe poverty because there is no education and birth control there, and its because they keep bringing children into the world that parents can't even feed or house, let alone educate them!! And you think that's ok? Granted, the US is not Africa, but its the same principal. A woman who lives down the street from me is pregnant with her fifth child. She is a stay at home mom and her husband has been out of work for over a year and even when working did not make a lot of money. You think it's ok for them to bring another child into the world they clearly can't afford it, because I don't. They are already on food stamps, can barely put food on the table everynight, and are going to end up losing their home in the next six months, and they go and have another child? It's irresponsible and selfish to continue having children you can't raise properly.
I'm not playing "Devil's advocate" at all. Ani said that. Oh, btw, I'm not playing God either. Carry on, I'm interested to hear what your cutoff plan is on the amount of children one should have. I had my first little child (girl) when I was 22 y.o. Didn't have a pan to pee pee in. If you would like to know what she does today, who she is...dm me and I might tell you, or.....maybe not as I don't like you so far.
I disagree, I came from eastern european block, my parents were not wiring money to me, I had to pay for everything myself. What is poverty in your understanding? My family never had juice in the fridge, my parents bought it maybe 3 times and it would be gone in half an hour. IT was not like you open a fridge and choose (should I have orange or should I have pineapple), first time I had yougurt when I was 14 (that is when my country finally figured it out how to make it and it was considerably cheaper than Dannnon or any other kind), that is the age I got first real Barbie (when I did not need it anymore) a penpal from England sent it to me for Christmas. The only drinks we had were tea or milk or water. Soft drinks were in the house twice a year for christmas and bday. At any point of my life there I had only 1 skirt, 1 pair of jeans or pants, few sweaterts, had only 1 pair of summer sandals, 1 pair of winter boots and one pair of fall/spring boots, 1 jacket and 1 warm coat for the winter! For christmas I would get 2 toys the size that would fit in you palms, toys made out of wood and plastic, or cloth, like any child wants to get a cloth for Christmas?? I personally assisted in Foster care xmas party this year and donated tons of new toys, and let me tell you they all got at least 5 nice toys!! Are they poor in my eyes????? Of course nooooo!!!!
Everyone has opportunities in this country, for some it comes easier others have to work for it, but that's life. If you were handed your life over, maybe you feel quilty and obligated to share, as others were not so lucky, then go distribute hot meals-on-wheels at the GAringer along with anti-gang propaganda, you wont make a difference but it will make you feel better...
I worked hard for what I have and have no intensions to share, but will give counseling and step-by-step instructions on what to do and what not to do.
Why do you say that immigrants are not comparable? What stops low-income here have dreams? Nothing right. They are HAPPY with the way things are, so let them be, they don't need help. IF they were not happy they would have done something, just like immigrants do (for whom it's much harder to do anything)
I will never agree on the argument helping healthy adults here, never. If I made it, everyone who was born here can make it. period.
I think that it's quite a different situation growing up in a country where just about everyone is poor - perhaps save for the military/party elite...and in many Communist/Socialist/Collectivist states, whether in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, China, Cuba or others, there was an excellent education system, particularly in math and science. Anyone growing up in that system and going to those schools would have some kind of advantage. My grandparents were immigrants coming out of this kind of system, and came to the country as students to pursue master's degrees.
And BTW, I don't think that it's fair to say that I or any other individual can't make a difference...if that's the case, it's a sad world we live in.
I'm not playing "Devil's advocate" at all. Ani said that. Oh, btw, I'm not playing God either. Carry on, I'm interested to hear what your cutoff plan is on the amount of children one should have. I had my first little child (girl) when I was 22 y.o. Didn't have a pan to pee pee in. If you would like to know what she does today, who she is...dm me and I might tell you, or.....maybe not as I don't like you so far.
You're obviously missing the point here. It's not to find out how we can stop a woman from having a baby if she doesn't have the money, but to stop handing out the money that ultimately myself and many others are paying for from the taxes being taken out of our check every week.
This arguement all started with someone saying that the children are the ones we need to protect in this situation and that is why the low income housing in ballantyne would've been a good idea...no one disagrees that these children aren't the victims, but who should pay for that? me? because I work? I dont think thats right. So yes, you had a child at 22 and she might be a Dr. or a lawyer now, great. But that's just validating the whole arguement that if you didn't have a "pan to pee pee in" and you have this fantastic daughter now - its all about how this child was raised INSIDE the home...whether or not the government gave you money has no affect on how that child turned out today; only YOU had that affect on that child. You were the ultimate reason for teaching that child responsibility, morals and values. Handing out "free" money to a family that keeps having children isn't doing anything but enabling them...and shows the child that you don't need to work hard to get the finer things in life. Whatever happened to working hard towards achieving a goal?
In end I just want to say that I also had a child at a young age, I was 24. Completely not ready for it. It changed my life...I went from going out partying every night to having to change diapers and losing a ton of friends in the process. I don't stand for abortion, but I did give adoption a long hard thought. I actually could've qualified for section 8 and food stamps but I didn't sign up because I believe that if you get yourself into this mess you need to take responsibility and get yourself out of it. Life's not supposed to be easy, its hard. Every single person in their life has had some rough spots at one time or another, some more rough than others, but its what you decide to do through those tough times that makes you who you are. I look back and realize through all those tough times it was a blessing, it changed me for the better and my life is that much better because of it. I don't mean to lecture, I just get really urked when people come with sappy sad stories about how they never got a break in life...or talk about the families that didn't get a break in life or that are working hard and just can't make ends meet and blah blah blah. We live in America, not in some third world country where you're working at a sweatshop for .25 an hour. Be grateful for what you do have...and if you need a little assistance on the way, we'll gladly hand it to you until you get on your feet, but I think it's crossing the line to say that you deserve to be my next door neighbor. I have absolutely no sympathy or patience for those who gave up and leave it for the government to take care of, which after all it clearly ends up being the TAXPAYERS problem.
You're obviously missing the point here. It's not to find out how we can stop a woman from having a baby if she doesn't have the money, but to stop handing out the money that ultimately myself and many others are paying for from the taxes being taken out of our check every week.
This arguement all started with someone saying that the children are the ones we need to protect in this situation and that is why the low income housing in ballantyne would've been a good idea...no one disagrees that these children aren't the victims, but who should pay for that? me? because I work? I dont think thats right. So yes, you had a child at 22 and she might be a Dr. or a lawyer now, great. But that's just validating the whole arguement that if you didn't have a "pan to pee pee in" and you have this fantastic daughter now - its all about how this child was raised INSIDE the home...whether or not the government gave you money has no affect on how that child turned out today; only YOU had that affect on that child. You were the ultimate reason for teaching that child responsibility, morals and values. Handing out "free" money to a family that keeps having children isn't doing anything but enabling them...and shows the child that you don't need to work hard to get the finer things in life. Whatever happened to working hard towards achieving a goal?
In end I just want to say that I also had a child at a young age, I was 24. Completely not ready for it. It changed my life...I went from going out partying every night to having to change diapers and losing a ton of friends in the process. I don't stand for abortion, but I did give adoption a long hard thought. I actually could've qualified for section 8 and food stamps but I didn't sign up because I believe that if you get yourself into this mess you need to take responsibility and get yourself out of it. Life's not supposed to be easy, its hard. Every single person in their life has had some rough spots at one time or another, some more rough than others, but its what you decide to do through those tough times that makes you who you are. I look back and realize through all those tough times it was a blessing, it changed me for the better and my life is that much better because of it. I don't mean to lecture, I just get really urked when people come with sappy sad stories about how they never got a break in life...or talk about the families that didn't get a break in life or that are working hard and just can't make ends meet and blah blah blah. We live in America, not in some third world country where you're working at a sweatshop for .25 an hour. Be grateful for what you do have...and if you need a little assistance on the way, we'll gladly hand it to you until you get on your feet, but I think it's crossing the line to say that you deserve to be my next door neighbor. I have absolutely no sympathy or patience for those who gave up and leave it for the government to take care of, which after all it clearly ends up being the TAXPAYERS problem.
1) It's not "obvious" to me that I am missing any point here.
2) I am "grateful" for all that I have.
3) I am not in favor of giving away my money (or yours)
4) I have no problem understanding that you have an opinion and would like to state it here.
5) I have a business in "a third world country" and I am well aware of the conditions as such.
6) What else are you trying to tell me? Carry on, I'll read it tomorrow. I'm sleepy right now and wouldn't want to misinterpet anything you have to say. Your posts are very interesting.
Good nite,ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzz.
I think that it's quite a different situation growing up in a country where just about everyone is poor - perhaps save for the military/party elite...and in many Communist/Socialist/Collectivist states, whether in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, China, Cuba or others, there was an excellent education system, particularly in math and science. Anyone growing up in that system and going to those schools would have some kind of advantage. My grandparents were immigrants coming out of this kind of system, and came to the country as students to pursue master's degrees.
And BTW, I don't think that it's fair to say that I or any other individual can't make a difference...if that's the case, it's a sad world we live in.
Agreed, we do have an excellent school system there, and after all these posts I might consider to send my kids to school system in my country. And not all of the people were poor, there were kids who traveled all over Europe, who had all toys imaginable and who were surprised when you were saying that you never have juice...
Education system should be changed, but honestly if I were to tell what it's like to be in the school back in my country, I do not think that any american parent would agree to have it that way...
I will say that it is very easy to hit rock bottom in this country...there is no real safety net. If a family has mortgage and all other expenses and god forbid one gets laid off, pretty much no one (no bank, no credit cards, no insurance) will willingly work with you to help out. They will ruin your credit score, jack up the APR's, house will go into foreclosure...all in a matter of 4-6 months. It will take a person in this economy 6-12 months to get another job but by that time you will be in a $itt hole.
1) It's not "obvious" to me that I am missing any point here.
2) I am "grateful" for all that I have.
3) I am not in favor of giving away my money (or yours)
4) I have no problem understanding that you have an opinion and would like to state it here.
5) I have a business in "a third world country" and I am well aware of the conditions as such.
6) What else are you trying to tell me? Carry on, I'll read it tomorrow. I'm sleepy right now and wouldn't want to misinterpet anything you have to say. Your posts are very interesting.
Good nite,ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzz.
Woah, woah, woah...this wasn't all directed at you, it started off in reply to you because you stated that we should just kill off all the children to fix poverty problems. It was your way to ridicule myself and whomever else was writing about how the problem starts with the attitude of entitlement from those who think they can just have kids and the government will have to pay for it...or should I say taxpayers will have to pay for it. I understand where you were going with that statement and correct me if I'm wrong but what you were saying is that there is no easy answer to stop someone from having more children and its not like we can just put a limit on how many children someone can have. And you're right...unfortunately there isn't a way for us to stop it BUT my point was not that I'm trying to find a way to stop it but to point out that for every person who has written on this forum stating that not every family is milking the system and that the children are the victims, yada yada yada, all that talk is is putting a bandage over the problem. It's saying "but what about this situation"...so as far as the situation where the kids didn't have a choice in this matter, yes you're right...but if the parents were so responsible and moral in the first place we wouldn't see as many people having children when they are struggling financially. See, that's what gets me...some want to make excuses for those who need help by picturing this perfect american family who has a few children and BOOM they get hit with hardship and heartache and now they have no way to pay their bills and they can't afford a roof over their head. That's not a clear picture...most of the time its someone who didn't really care about getting an education or working from the start - finds the ins and outs of the government qualifications to get their benefits and then they see a pattern..if I have a child I'll get more money and more food stamps and a larger sum for section 8, ect ect ect. It's sad but true. And for the families that are working hard and still not making ends meets, it sucks for a short time but most will get themselves out of it with enough dedication and hardwork. "Where there's a will there's a way..."
And again, I do realize this problem is a lot bigger than we can ever even imagine to fix because like someone else stated - we can't even fix the healthcare issues let alone touch something this complex. But I just think the whole attitude and view of looking at section 8 tenants is off skew...and that's the only point I was trying to get across....
I will say that it is very easy to hit rock bottom in this country...there is no real safety net. If a family has mortgage and all other expenses and god forbid one gets laid off, pretty much no one (no bank, no credit cards, no insurance) will willingly work with you to help out. They will ruin your credit score, jack up the APR's, house will go into foreclosure...all in a matter of 4-6 months. It will take a person in this economy 6-12 months to get another job but by that time you will be in a $itt hole.
If someone gets laid off there is unemployment. But regardless, you shouldn't have a mortgage that is so high that you are living pay check to pay check on both incomes anyway. You should watch Suze Orman, she'll tell you that you should always live as if something bad like losing your job was going to happen. You should have enough in savings to cover 6 months of bills just in case something like that does happens because in life there are no guarantees. I understand what you're saying...the banks and credit card companies aren't lenient but then again, we should be reliant on them. No one is going to take care of you but you...and frankly that's the way it should be in ALL aspects.
From what I heard, the affordable housing advocates are coming out of the woodwork and even showed up at the city council meeting. I think they are mobilizing, ala Acorn, in response to this.
From what I heard, the affordable housing advocates are coming out of the woodwork and even showed up at the city council meeting. I think they are mobilizing, ala Acorn, in response to this.
That is what I am noticing, too. Can't believe this has somehow been morphed into their having the "right" to live wherever they want to live - and doing it all on Federal dollars, lol. Convoluted thinking as to the "rights" of folks whose lifestyles are being subsidized by tax dollars.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
