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Some of the studies linked to above do show what we already know: early intervention is very cost effective, low student:teacher ratio is more desirable than high, differntion is essential to keeping kids actively engaged.
Some of the studies show things that are decidely less palatable to some: segregation by ability is effective, minority teachers as role models can be as effective in teaching bad habits as good, kids with some behaviors are better off non-mainstreamed...
Some of those results are NOT going to be politically palatable, and no doubt the most controvesial would take an enormously dedicated /skilled leader to shift perceptions.
Meet another poster -- Is Olympia Fields a good neighborhood to raise a family?
Despite multiple folks all suggesting that not just aggregated data but personal experience ought to give one pause, the strong suggestion is this family is going to move from Hyde Park to an area with a school that has issues. Perhaps lots of folks like gregbuck could buck the trend and get the schools to improve, but perhaps the attractiveness of the town is enough to get them to overlook trends. Four years of high school fly by awfully fast -- too fast for any one parent to really turn things around. Given the extreme demands that modern life puts on one's time perhaps it is too much to expect for folks to really dig into these tough problems. The very real possibility is that the cycle of "four years and its not my problem because my kid is in good shape" may very well be why the performance gap persists...
No one said data was an issue, but data is not much good without analyzing what it actually means. Here's some "personal experience" for you. I "personally" know a number of professors that moved to Oak Park, part of the reason being that they believes the education offered to be excellent. All other their children have perform exceptionally well, and have all gotten into top tier 4 year colleges. As I've always said, the data, once analyzed, reflects the fact that if a child has involved parents and have been raised in an environment that pushes the importance of learning, their children will have the opportunity to take advantage of an excellent education in Oak Park. I wonder, could it be possible that the predominantly high test scores in places like Hinsdale Central be more a reflection on the fact the Hinsdale attracts the wealthy who all share the values of placing importance on education, as oppose to any type of supposed superiority in the way they do things? I guess we won't know until they accept a large portion of poor minorities that aren't raised in homes where education is thought to be of upmost importance.
I'm a detractor, Chitownperson, and I live in the village. I get that a town can be desirable for reasons that might not be obvious (e.g., the fabulous record store one happens upon, the interesting, thoughtful people one meets in OP, the lack of conspicuous consumption here-- really, that IS desirable), but I think the OP -- whether or not she intended --was on to something when she was sort of baffled as to what the deal is with the arts district in a place that's supposedly so artsy, vibrant, happening, and "Evanston-esque" in some folks' minds. To me, there are many parts of Oak Park -- in fact all retail areas save for maybe the bricked street portion of the Marion St. shops (not saying that bricking that area was worth it -- just pointing out a nicer, to me, area) --that need a serious facelift. (And to me, it's really pushing it to call the area around Marion St. and Chicago Ave. a shopping district unto itself.) When I went to Geneva, IL a few years ago, I was struck by how nice everything looked, and yet I noticed that in many cases, the signage above merchants' places of business was often cheaper signage (e.g., not some big, substantial wood engraved thing) yet still bright and attractive signage that seemed like a deliberate addition to each place of business so that the area -- or at least each merchant's own portion of it -- looked nice. I'm not here to start a comparison between Geneva, IL and Oak Park, by the way. But I gotta say that given the very high real estate taxes assessed by the village, one does have to ask why things don't look a little spiffier. Sorry.
I guess I was wrong, there's one resident here that is a detractor. The OP is entitled to her initial opinion, and I think a number of people, including myself addressed what we believe to be of value in the Arts District, and I believe the OP saw there were things that would be of value to her family. I don't believe anyone has compared it to being "Evanston-esque". I also don't remember saying that Chicago and Marion was a "business district", but that it has a few eateries, stores and businesses that offer something within walking distance to their homes... But it's not 1 or 2 lonely shops, so it's enough to be notable.
Yes, Oak Park is not a glitzy or "spiffy" in all it's aspects compared to some places that are, but I don't really care about how new a sign looks... that's just not that important to me, though Oak Park seems to be in a constant state of facelifting (note the recent/current facelifts to Scoville Park, south of the tracks on Marion, Taylor Park, ALL the school playgrounds). If someone wants everything looking "spiffy", everything in line etc... they will probably be happier on the north shore, or somewhere else faded paint is frowned upon.
As a resident of the Oak Park Arts District and one that is going to move soon, I can say that living here has been one of the best experiences of my life. Does the District need more businesses, sure it does! But it really does have a lot going for it already. In my mind, the base is set for this place to take off. Unfortunately, the recession has hit this part of OP a bit hard and you have quite a few buildings that need to be handed over to new owners.
Once that happens, I will bet that a craft brew bar or a similar type of business will help anchor this stretch of land similarly to what Buzz, Trattoria, and East Gate already do.
The land is too valuable for this not to happen.
We are leaving OP's Arts District with mixed emotions, and I'm sure that it will flourish eventually. It's a no brainer IMHO.
If you were a homeowner long enough to profitably sell your home you probably know that the residential real estate market has been quite turbulent. Combined with the high property tax rates that Oak Park that is a negative for all property owners.
What you may not know is that Cook Co has even more burdensome property taxes on commercial property. No doubt the "too valuable" mindset is part of what caused the former owner to behave in the manner that they did. When one is over taxed and the cash flow from tenants leaves you unable to remain current on loans , pay taxes and make necessary improvements you end up with buildings that fall into disrepair and/or are seized by creditors...
The hard truth is that running any kind of business is extremely challenging in even the best of circumstances and the high taxes, overly restrictive zoning, limited parking and often less than welcoming attitudes of some politicians and residents to the kinds of businesses that can be profitable make success far from a sure thing in any town.
I have seen far more businesses that should have been succesful fail in good economic times and bad. The factors that lead to success are often very hard for an individual business owner to work on. The spirit of cooperation and compromise that is needed is too often lacking, especially when neighbors wrongly beleive a flourishing environent will come about automatically...
I wish you well in whereever you move and sincerely hope that the next homeowner / tenant will be at least as hopeful / willing to be supportive of future success as you may have been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Considering Oak Park
As a resident of the Oak Park Arts District and one that is going to move soon, I can say that living here has been one of the best experiences of my life. Does the District need more businesses, sure it does! But it really does have a lot going for it already. In my mind, the base is set for this place to take off. Unfortunately, the recession has hit this part of OP a bit hard and you have quite a few buildings that need to be handed over to new owners.
Once that happens, I will bet that a craft brew bar or a similar type of business will help anchor this stretch of land similarly to what Buzz, Trattoria, and East Gate already do.
The land is too valuable for this not to happen.
We are leaving OP's Arts District with mixed emotions, and I'm sure that it will flourish eventually. It's a no brainer IMHO.
I'm a detractor, Chitownperson, and I live in the village. I get that a town can be desirable for reasons that might not be obvious (e.g., the fabulous record store one happens upon, the interesting, thoughtful people one meets in OP, the lack of conspicuous consumption here-- really, that IS desirable), but I think the OP -- whether or not she intended --was on to something when she was sort of baffled as to what the deal is with the arts district in a place that's supposedly so artsy, vibrant, happening, and "Evanston-esque" in some folks' minds. To me, there are many parts of Oak Park -- in fact all retail areas save for maybe the bricked street portion of the Marion St. shops (not saying that bricking that area was worth it -- just pointing out a nicer, to me, area) --that need a serious facelift. (And to me, it's really pushing it to call the area around Marion St. and Chicago Ave. a shopping district unto itself.) When I went to Geneva, IL a few years ago, I was struck by how nice everything looked, and yet I noticed that in many cases, the signage above merchants' places of business was often cheaper signage (e.g., not some big, substantial wood engraved thing) yet still bright and attractive signage that seemed like a deliberate addition to each place of business so that the area -- or at least each merchant's own portion of it -- looked nice. I'm not here to start a comparison between Geneva, IL and Oak Park, by the way. But I gotta say that given the very high real estate taxes assessed by the village, one does have to ask why things don't look a little spiffier. Sorry.
I certainly do not think Oak Park looks run down or not well maintained, but frankly, I am pleased that it doesn't look like a suburban vanilla downtown where everything matches. Even the most desired 'hoods in Chicago have differences in their business areas. I am specifically think of Lincoln Square. There are a mix of businesses, including retail shops and restaurants, all with different signages and quality.
We are seriously considering OPRF also – I do think the downtown looks a bit run down/dated and could use better maintenance/facelift. The taxes are high so I do not see any excuses the city/township can use here… ~ It is the one element that is holding us back.
We are from outside the state and will be visiting again to give OP's downtown/surrounding areas a second chance to deliver a better impression per GREAT input from these boards...
We are seriously considering OPRF also – I do think the downtown looks a bit run down/dated and could use better maintenance/facelift. The taxes are high so I do not see any excuses the city/township can use here… ~ It is the one element that is holding us back.
I'm kind of baffled by this comment. Most of the storefronts in DTOP and near Lake and Oak Park Avenue are in really good shape. My biggest beef with DTOP is that it is fragmented by a large parking lot.
Now there are OTHER parts of Oak Park that look like crap (Harlem Avenue or along the Ike for instance), but I've never felt this about down town. And most of the people I know that live in Oak Park kind of vibe on the grittiness and chalk it up to "character".
Last edited by Lookout Kid; 06-24-2013 at 11:43 AM..
We are seriously considering OPRF also – I do think the downtown looks a bit run down/dated and could use better maintenance/facelift. The taxes are high so I do not see any excuses the city/township can use here… ~ It is the one element that is holding us back.
We are from outside the state and will be visiting again to give OP's downtown/surrounding areas a second chance to deliver a better impression per GREAT input from these boards...
BTW, the vast majority of taxes in OP are levied by the school districts. (FYI, in Illinois there are multiple taxing bodies such as school districts, library district, park district, municipality, township, etc.) The taxes levied by the municipality itself (ie Village of Oak Park) are only a small portion of the total tax bill (something like 15% of my latest tax bill.)
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Moving? Why? Where? Support is hard to come by...
