Murder in Chicago is murder in America (Atlanta, Kansas: violent crime, lawyer)

[Dport7674]

"Get rid of guns!" will work as well as "Get rid of drugs!"

If guns were already illegal today, getting a gun would still be as easy as buying drugs. And we can't even keep drugs out of our prisons. How would we stop gun companies from manufacturing guns in Mexico to supply the black market for guns? We wouldnt.

Guns will always be as plentiful as a dime bag of weed. Anti-gun folks should focus their energy on becoming pro-community folks.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

Apology accepted. FYI, I am black, if that matters to you.

it matters only in the sense that it doesn't matter since I admit that i incorrectly interpreted what you said to be racist. thanks for setting me straight and I am sorry.

i do disagree with you but I was way off base on the parts of what you said that I thought were offensive when they were not.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Dport7674

"Get rid of guns!" will work as well as "Get rid of drugs!"

If guns were already illegal today, getting a gun would still be as easy as buying drugs. And we can't even keep drugs out of our prisons. How would we stop gun companies from manufacturing guns in Mexico to supply the black market for guns? We wouldnt.

Guns will always be as plentiful as a dime bag of weed. Anti-gun folks should focus their energy on becoming pro-community folks.

very interesting and astute linkage between guns and drugs. we have to make guns less available and make drugs more so, legally, regulated for safety concerns, and
with the tax money collected on them going towards treatment purpose.

a war on drugs can only be won by increasing their supply and eliminating the power of illegal drug sales and the most vicious of criminal groups that run these concerns. The war against violence can only be won by reducing the number of guns available to carry out the violence.

I use the word "won".....two times, actually....but I hardly look at either of these as war and neither of our so called victories would by any means be complete. but that is how society works. There are few, if any, 100% solutions (although I have become a strong believer in the 99% variety). We work to accomplish the most good that we can for the most people and the least harm we can for the least amount of people (usually those who are for the minority opinion, the one that did not get its way). Majority rule, minority rights*, honorable compromise: that's what takes us to our optimum in any legislative act.

* and it is essential that the minority rights that are gun owners and for those whom the NRA speaks that do need to be guarded and addressed. Just like Roe v. Wade should never been a full pie victory, this one should not either.

[mattywo85]

Originally Posted by edsg25

that's pretty bleak, matty. we have no national DNA and nothing has been stamped into. you talk about long ago but seem to skip over the fact that as late as the 1950s, we weren't worrying about gun control and rising murder rates; mass shootings were unknown. and so many people in the United States today didn't even have ancestors here at the end of WWII.

Yes, we have a history of violence. Yes, we need to confront it. And certainly the course of our history may have turned out better if he hadn't revolved from England in a bloody war but evolved from England with the passage of time like Canada did.

we can solve this problem and be like every other civilized nation on the planet, as long as we understand that solution is not panacea; our problems will not miraculously go away. but with gun control, we will have gone a long way in shrinking the degree of the problem, save lives, and improve the quality of life in the United States.

"Unfortunately its who we are, getting rid of the guns won't solve anything"?

Fortunately it's not who we are and controlling guns will solve something, something important, as it severely limits the degree of damage that guns can do.

Just because you didn't hear about it in the 1950s didn't mean it wasn't going on. People were very repressed in the 50's from war time and such in the 40's. However "liberation" was going on under the table. Sex, rock n roll, women having a voice, etc. Also keep in mind this is 2012, not 1950.

And yes we are violent because of our past. Its like saying a child who grows up in an abusive home will be more violent and abusive later in life because they believe that is the norm, same principle.

We can't just "solve it" and move on because there will never be 100% on one side. The US is a country divided on almost every major topic....abortion, religion, capital punishment, etc. Removing the guns from every home will only make things worse because if we "control" it then don't we have to control the other bill of rights then too?

*O and on a side note dividing a nation is exactly what the gov't has intended to do.

[LakeShoreSoxGo]

UP with dope, down with hope.

[Jane1392832]

Murder in Chicago is primarily due to gang activity, just like in every other city in America.

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/teens/cr...ns_gangs.shtml

[DoubleMakers]

More gun laws and gun restrictions won't work for one simple reason - you can't legislate a criminal. Isn't it naive to believe that criminals will follow gun control laws? Getting rid of guns isn't an option, it's unconstitutional. So if I had my way, Illinois and the city of Chicago would relax their current gun control laws and allow more licensed and trained rule-followers (like myself) to purchase and carry a weapon. The other states (all 49 of them) that allow concealed-carry don't seem to have the problems we have in Chicago...I wonder why?

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by DoubleMakers

More gun laws and gun restrictions won't work for one simple reason - you can't legislate a criminal. Isn't it naive to believe that criminals will follow gun control laws? Getting rid of guns isn't an option, it's unconstitutional. So if I had my way, Illinois and the city of Chicago would relax their current gun control laws and allow more licensed and trained rule-followers (like myself) to purchase and carry a weapon. The other states (all 49 of them) that allow concealed-carry don't seem to have the problems we have in Chicago...I wonder why?

I agree with you 100%.

[nycjowww]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Exactly - and why do we have so many gang members? Black market drug sale profits. When kids can't get paid for standing on street corners either directly selling drugs or acting as lookouts or enforcers you'll see that rate plummet.

The NYC method of just gentrifying them out of the city may make NYC look good, but it just pushes the problems into smaller towns.

thats not a nyc method its a american method.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by DoubleMakers

The other states (all 49 of them) that allow concealed-carry don't seem to have the problems we have in Chicago...I wonder why?

I don't think allowing concealed carry would be that big a deal in Chicago, but it would do absolutely nothing to reduce crime. New Orleans, St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Kansas City, Miami, Atlanta, and many other cities in the US have higher homicide and violent crime rates than Chicago - and they allow concealed carry.

Saying concealed carry states "don't seem to have the problems we have in Chicago" is just plain wrong. Louisiana and New Orleans have MUCH less gun control than Chicago, but New Orleans has a murder rate that is more than three times that of Chicago.