Chicago is up for another boom ? (Quincy, Ohio: credit rating, public schools, taxes)

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Now you're just reaching. Sales tax is what, 10.25% or something? I brought up just one example.

Oldest econ trick in the book is that when you want to jolt an economy, you put money in the hands of poorer people - because they spend it, and they spend it locally. No offshore investment accounts, etc.

Sales tax is 9.25% and 2.25% on groceries in Chicago. Grocery shopping is not a cash cow for governments.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Sales tax is 9.25% and 2.25% on groceries in Chicago. Grocery shopping is not a cash cow for governments.

The structure of sales tax revenue in Illinois is a little funky -- local municipalities get not just a flat 1% slice but also "local surcharges" on categories other than grocery & medicine that they allowed to raise above the minimum levels.

This is a weird system and it is strongly biased toward towns that have "luxury" or at least higher end non-grocery type stores -- Oak Brook is sort of the "model" for how to extract major bucks and still have a modest local surcharge but they are also blessed with not just the huge high end Oakbrook Center Mall (which has pretty much the same stores as Old Orchard in Skokie...) but also a super-high volume Costco (which does land office business in all kinds of pricey electronics and other other non-grocery items) but also the more value oriented stores like Nordstrom Rack, World Market, Designer Show Warehouse, TJ Maxx, Old Navy as well as a profitable / high ticket furniture stores...

The relatively modest police costs associated with having just an occasional retail- related crime are more than covered by the vast sums that flow into the relatively tiny village.

[Aleking]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The structure of sales tax revenue in Illinois is a little funky -- local municipalities get not just a flat 1% slice but also "local surcharges" on categories other than grocery & medicine that they allowed to raise above the minimum levels.

This is a weird system and it is strongly biased toward towns that have "luxury" or at least higher end non-grocery type stores -- Oak Brook is sort of the "model" for how to extract major bucks and still have a modest local surcharge but they are also blessed with not just the huge high end Oakbrook Center Mall (which has pretty much the same stores as Old Orchard in Skokie...) but also a super-high volume Costco (which does land office business in all kinds of pricey electronics and other other non-grocery items) but also the more value oriented stores like Nordstrom Rack, World Market, Designer Show Warehouse, TJ Maxx, Old Navy as well as a profitable / high ticket furniture stores...

The relatively modest police costs associated with having just an occasional retail- related crime are more than covered by the vast sums that flow into the relatively tiny village.

cool story bro

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Aleking

cool story bro

It is a FACT that when appropriately knowledgeable "business friendly" political leaders PLAN a path that takes into consideration all the impacts of state laws, needs of developers, long term business trends and other valid criteria from land use / zoning to financial impact it is more than possible to build a town that runs efficiently and without corruption.

In contrast the illogic of letting connected developers dictate what makes them money so long as they donate appropriate "campaign funds" to power brokering aldermen is a big reason why things end up costing more and being such a long term negative in Chicago...

The lesson of Oak Brook have been largely copied by other smart towns too -- places like Glenview used a similar strategy to redevelop the former Naval Air Station.

When Rosemont was denied a casino (thank goodness, as that mobbed-up / overly secretive town would have "run the skim" as well as an gangster in American Hustle...) they wisely choose to target high end retail.

Even Aurora has largely used a similar strategy of retail-based revenue from Fox Valley and the Aurora Premium Outlets.

Of course Chicago has its share of high end retail too, but it is largely confined to just a few city blocks near North Michigan Ave and the relative strain of providing sufficient city services to even that concentrated area does not leave a whole lot of extra revenue to go around...

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Sales tax is 9.25% and 2.25% on groceries in Chicago. Grocery shopping is not a cash cow for governments.

You're missing the point. Poor and lower-middle class people pay plenty of taxes, and user fees, and parking tickets, etc., etc.

There's an older book that is still worth reading called "America: Who Really Pays the Taxes."

This may help, scroll down to the graphs.

The one tax graph you really need to know

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

You're missing the point. Poor and lower-middle class people pay plenty of taxes, and user fees, and parking tickets, etc., etc.

There's an older book that is still worth reading called "America: Who Really Pays the Taxes."

This may help, scroll down to the graphs.

The one tax graph you really need to know

Yeah, I thought you were trying to say that sales tax on groceries fills the city's coffers. If your point is that sales taxes are regressive, you are totally correct.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Yeah, I thought you were trying to say that sales tax on groceries fills the city's coffers. If your point is that sales taxes are regressive, you are totally correct.

My bad if I was unclear, but yes, I'm referring to the regressive nature of those taxes, and also the sheer volume of things the govt now charges you money for. Park district programs - even charging fees for using their weight rooms in some cases! - are a great example.

[Aleking]

chicago might boom in 50-100 years when the west coast runs out of water and the east coast is underwater but until then it's gonna be a rough ride

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Aleking

chicago might boom in 50-100 years when the west coast runs out of water and the east coast is underwater but until then it's gonna be a rough ride

I agree in general, there will be no "boom" if by that we mean crazy growth. But the doom and gloom of many is kind of funny. Chicago metro's economy has grown faster than both NY's and LA's over the last 4 years, but that for some reason is ignored.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I agree in general, there will be no "boom" if by that we mean crazy growth. But the doom and gloom of many is kind of funny. Chicago metro's economy has grown faster than both NY's and LA's over the last 4 years, but that for some reason is ignored.

I do think with the next larger economic rebound we are going to see some neighborhood development explode, it was well on its way before the financial sector bottomed out.