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I could never vote for Rauner simply because he hasn't shown me that he is in the least bit serious about fixing the problems in Illinois.
Almost every problem Illinois is facing right now can be traced back to the fact that for over 20 years we've had politicians who have played financial games to avoid either raising taxes or cutting services. They've invested in dubious financial schemes, siphoned away money meant for pensions, sold off assets, failed to pay bills, and so on, and so.... All of this was done to avoid making choices about raising taxes or cutting benefits. We are far past the point where we can indulge in flaky schemes to get us out of this mess, hard decisions need to be made. We're so deep in the hole right now that it isn't a choice between cutting services or raising taxes, it's a matter of both being done to pay off past debts and obligations.
Every policy piece that Rauner has issued is a continuation of the failure to make choices. His plan to fix the state's debts is non existent. He repeatedly promises to cut taxes - but offers no way to make up the lost revenue. At the same time he promises to increase funding for education, roads, etc. I'm shocked that anyone takes the guy seriously.
Also, corruption is a problem, but it's important to remember that almost all opportunities for corruption arise when government bodies are handing out contracts to private firms. If you look at Rauner's support for charter schools that are now under investigation for defrauding investors and giving family members multi-million dollar contracts, or his switching from Republican to Democrat when investments were on the line, it's impossible to believe he would offer any improvements regarding corruption.
I agree in general, but the income tax has been raised, now it's time to cut spending/benefits.
I agree in general, but the income tax has been raised, now it's time to cut spending/benefits.
-- if do not vote for Rauner what WILL HAPPEN is all but set in stone: The HORRENDOUS lack of leadership by Quinn will continue. The OUTRAGEOUS waste of INCREASED TAX REVENUE will worsen. The overall ECONOMIC CLIMATE of the state WILL remain at the bottom of all important rankings for general business attractiveness.
The ONLY SANE way to address the problems of Illinois' ridiculously larcenous political class is to make taxes fairer for all businesses NOT JUST LOWER THE TAXES FOR FIRMS THAT DANCE TO THE TUNE of Rahm and Madigan AND THEN TO GET SERIOUS about removing freeloading pals from the state payrolls. You would have to BLIND not to see that Quinn, just iike Blagojevich and other crooks, larded up payrolls -- The anatomy of an Illinois patronage scandal - Chicago Tribune
The fact is Rauner is 100% the ONLY alternative to this kind nonsense. He absolutely has NO desire to serve for any longer than is necessary so he will not lard up payrolls with pals that will get out the vote to keep him in office. He is further legitimately concerned with making sure that schools in Illinois do not continue to suffer with crushing levels of unfunded pensions and very likely has the backing of BOTH guys like Rahm as well as folks from areas more traditionally supportive of good schools like the suburbs. THAT IS A PRETTY RARE sort of "coalition" and will almost certainly be the ONLY way to realistically move the organized labor forces from their current stance of protecting benefits and such...
Folks this is REAL WORLD and as I have said before the numbers do not lie. The degree to which current unfunded pensions of all the pension funds of the State of Illinois and worse those of the City of Chicago /CPS (which are SEPARATE FROM THE REST OF THE STATE!) are honestly and truly more out of balance than those of even horrible places like Detroit is a FACT. Anybody that does not want to see Chicago essentially "gutted out" by a FEDERAL bankruptcy judge pretty much has to vote for Rauner. The numbers are just too far gone for any "shell game" of Quinn to actually keep things solvent and even Rahm knows this ...
I agree in general, but the income tax has been raised, now it's time to cut spending/benefits.
I have to agree. We can't afford to go down the path we are on any longer. Rauner wouldn't solve these problems alone, but at least he might bring some balance to our state government, which has basically been a one-party cronyism machine for decades.
When we have drivers ed instructors making $140k per year and elligible for a generous life-long pension at age 50 (this is a real scenario in my district), clearly we have moved beyond "unions protecting wage earners" and moved on to "public employees abusing the system through a rigged contract negotiation process". There is no way the people of Illinois can afford to keep doling out these overly-generous employee contracts. And I am not anti-tax, but Illinois will not be well-served by having the highest tax rate of any "Middle-America" state. We are not New York or California, and have some structural disadvantages compared to those places.
I could never vote for Rauner simply because he hasn't shown me that he is in the least bit serious about fixing the problems in Illinois.
Almost every problem Illinois is facing right now can be traced back to the fact that for over 20 years we've had politicians who have played financial games to avoid either raising taxes or cutting services. They've invested in dubious financial schemes, siphoned away money meant for pensions, sold off assets, failed to pay bills, and so on, and so.... All of this was done to avoid making choices about raising taxes or cutting benefits. We are far past the point where we can indulge in flaky schemes to get us out of this mess, hard decisions need to be made. We're so deep in the hole right now that it isn't a choice between cutting services or raising taxes, it's a matter of both being done to pay off past debts and obligations.
Every policy piece that Rauner has issued is a continuation of the failure to make choices. His plan to fix the state's debts is non existent. He repeatedly promises to cut taxes - but offers no way to make up the lost revenue. At the same time he promises to increase funding for education, roads, etc. I'm shocked that anyone takes the guy seriously.
Also, corruption is a problem, but it's important to remember that almost all opportunities for corruption arise when government bodies are handing out contracts to private firms. If you look at Rauner's support for charter schools that are now under investigation for defrauding investors and giving family members multi-million dollar contracts, or his switching from Republican to Democrat when investments were on the line, it's impossible to believe he would offer any improvements regarding corruption.
At the same time, I could never Vote for Quinn because he isn't serious about fixing the problems in Illinois and has had the chance to do so for the last 5 years. I'll probably just sit this one out.
The whole concept of how pensions are supposed to work has been inverted by corruption...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid
I have to agree. We can't afford to go down the path we are on any longer. Rauner wouldn't solve these problems alone, but at least he might bring some balance to our state government, which has basically been a one-party cronyism machine for decades.
When we have drivers ed instructors making $140k per year and elligible for a generous life-long pension at age 50 (this is a real scenario in my district), clearly we have moved beyond "unions protecting wage earners" and moved on to "public employees abusing the system through a rigged contract negotiation process". There is no way the people of Illinois can afford to keep doling out these overly-generous employee contracts. And I am not anti-tax, but Illinois will not be well-served by having the highest tax rate of any "Middle-America" state. We are not New York or California, and have some structural disadvantages compared to those places.
While I am not going to try to decide the "value to society" of a Driver's Ed teacher I do know from an actuarial stance if that person is going to collect some large percentage of their salary after they stop working there has to be a funding mechanism that provides a solid financial backing.
For far too long the various political appointees have assumed their pals can serve a year or two on some 'executive board' and then live out their lives on huge pensions, as long as there are enough suckers that did sit in a tollboth and kick in 10% of their $40K for 35 years or whatever but guess what, THERE AIN'T HARDLY ANY OF THOSE JOBS NO MORE! The state is way way undermanned even in critical public safety roles for State Police and prison guards. The whole "workforce reduction" has cut into the revenue captured by the pension funds on the front end as the lifespans of the folks that had cushy state jobs continues to grow. It is basically an actuarial nightmare of the highest order.
There is little chance for the any of the towns with high property values and lower than average levies to really benefit from 'reform' but for towns where the property values remains abysmal and the high cost of government operations result in outrageous tax rates there really needs to be some new ideas in how perhaps various classes of taxes can be more equitably distributed so that there is at least a chance for some of these areas to remain competitive.
It is all too clear that Quinn's strategy of 'class envy / war fare' is designed solely to get low information voters to vote on emotion and not logic. Quinn has put forth no ideas that would actually give hope to folks facing the bleak prospects of crummy schools, no jobs and soaring taxes in the face of falling property values.
The only hope even formerly secure government retirees have for pension stability is a government that is held to normal standards of solvency and not the doofuss-of-the-day push mowing his way toward emotional hot buttons.
To those who might consider "SITTING THIS ONE OUT" you have to realize the same thugs that Quinn PAID to "get out the vote" will again be dropping-off 'absentee ballots' for all the folks intimidated off the streets in their violent neighborhoods and YOUR DECISION TO STAY HOME will let this kind of shameful domination by street criminals and crooks continue to make Illinois and Chicago a horrible place. THINK ABOUT THAT URBANOPHILES!
I have to agree. We can't afford to go down the path we are on any longer. Rauner wouldn't solve these problems alone, but at least he might bring some balance to our state government, which has basically been a one-party cronyism machine for decades.
When we have drivers ed instructors making $140k per year and elligible for a generous life-long pension at age 50 (this is a real scenario in my district), clearly we have moved beyond "unions protecting wage earners" and moved on to "public employees abusing the system through a rigged contract negotiation process". There is no way the people of Illinois can afford to keep doling out these overly-generous employee contracts. And I am not anti-tax, but Illinois will not be well-served by having the highest tax rate of any "Middle-America" state. We are not New York or California, and have some structural disadvantages compared to those places.
I could never vote for Rauner simply because he hasn't shown me that he is in the least bit serious about fixing the problems in Illinois.
and the Democrats are? Rather than reduce spending they want to raise taxes, raise taxes, and raise taxes some more. Illinois is already becoming increasingly uncompetitive and thus unattractive to both residents and businesses.
To be honest the problems in Illinois are so bad there is no solution other than a managed bankruptcy. Illinois already is de-facto bankrupt in that they are choosing which bills to pay and which to delay because they lack the money. As I said, it is the situation as Greece and the other insolvent European nations.
The pensions need to be brought back to reality. We can't continue to have a govt worker privileged class that can retire at age 50 will a full pension and life time benefits. Government bodies and school districts need to be consolidated. We have too many redundant governing bodies with taxing authority. We need a more streamlined, efficient govt, with reasonable worker pay and benefits. Another model would be GM. Once they got rid of the crazy union contracts and reorganized they began to become a solvent, viable company again. . It is going to take a huge amount of cooperation to accomplish these reforms and it seems as though the Democrats are going to have to either be dragged kicking and screaming or thrown out of office when the people have finally had enough.
I could never vote for Rauner simply because he hasn't shown me that he is in the least bit serious about fixing the problems in Illinois.
Almost every problem Illinois is facing right now can be traced back to the fact that for over 20 years we've had politicians who have played financial games to avoid either raising taxes or cutting services. They've invested in dubious financial schemes, siphoned away money meant for pensions, sold off assets, failed to pay bills, and so on, and so.... All of this was done to avoid making choices about raising taxes or cutting benefits. We are far past the point where we can indulge in flaky schemes to get us out of this mess, hard decisions need to be made. We're so deep in the hole right now that it isn't a choice between cutting services or raising taxes, it's a matter of both being done to pay off past debts and obligations.
Every policy piece that Rauner has issued is a continuation of the failure to make choices. His plan to fix the state's debts is non existent. He repeatedly promises to cut taxes - but offers no way to make up the lost revenue. At the same time he promises to increase funding for education, roads, etc. I'm shocked that anyone takes the guy seriously.
Also, corruption is a problem, but it's important to remember that almost all opportunities for corruption arise when government bodies are handing out contracts to private firms. If you look at Rauner's support for charter schools that are now under investigation for defrauding investors and giving family members multi-million dollar contracts, or his switching from Republican to Democrat when investments were on the line, it's impossible to believe he would offer any improvements regarding corruption.
Here's my question: If you aren't voting for Rauner, are you voting for Quinn?
Because on top of not being the least bit serious about fixing IL's issues, Quinn has screwed us further into the ground with debt, basically sodomized us with taxes, and hasn't fixed ANY bad neighborhoods in Chicago, Rockford, East St Louis, or elsewhere. We are in just as much crap we were in as before he was elected, if not worse.
I believe Rauner just wants to moderate the currently absurd spending culture this state has had for the last 40 years, which has by the way, proven to do no good for anybody. Keeping taxes high does nothing and helps no one, it only drives out businesses and people who'd be willing to be here and pay money for reasonable taxes and other resources. If you say otherwise, why do we still have Englewood and Lawndale? Rockford? East St Louis? None of these 'hoods have been fixed up, despite millions of dollars being pumped in to build new homes and support section 8 housing as well as link cards. Have these means and others actually fixed the roots of the problems? No. The fact that the poverty in these 'hoods still exist is evidence of this. You simply can't fix every problem in the world by taxing people through the roof.
If we don't put a cap or at least moderate this outrageous spending, this state will become Detroit West. LITERALLY.
If I were you, I wouldn't vote at all. Both candidates are shady, but if you had to vote, Rauner at least has a somewhat clean slate, and most of the arguments against him are the same non stop "Cayman Islands" BS argument over and over, which has been proven to have little merit already. Quinn has proven he has done nothing. He only wants to keep getting compensated for screwing IL in the butt. But at least Rauner's already rich, so he probably has some genuine passion for fixing the state.
Last edited by CCrest182; 09-06-2014 at 09:37 PM..
Location: Schaumburg, please don't hate me for it.
955 posts, read 1,832,882 times
Reputation: 1235
I won't vote for Rauner because of his penchant for petty dishonesty and his sense of hubris, but the final blow is taxes. The man who personally lobbied to kill the income tax hike at the end of this year, now wishes to reinstate it for four more years so he can "phase it out". He supports taxing retirement income, and worst of all wants to introduce a new Illinois service tax. Thusly introducing a whole new goldmine for
state and local governments to pillage for future generations. I'm not a big anti-tax guy, but creating
"new and improved taxes" only makes it easier for future governments to bail themselves out of irresponsible behavior.The duplicity that this candidate has exhibited, make it seem as if he has been training to be a politician all of his life.
It's going to be either governor candyazzer or governor Humpty Dumpty come November. Whatever happens, I'm going to have some fun with it. If gov frumpy wins, we'll probably get to see him lose his pants at some official ceremony. Or at the very least he'll sneeze all over some handicapped kid in a wheelchair. The temperamental rich guy has an almost unlimited potential for inspiring retorts, zingers and self-induced public humiliation.
I won't vote for Rauner because of his penchant for petty dishonesty and his sense of hubris, but the final blow is taxes. The man who personally lobbied to kill the income tax hike at the end of this year, now wishes to reinstate it for four more years so he can "phase it out". He supports taxing retirement income, and worst of all wants to introduce a new Illinois service tax. Thusly introducing a whole new goldmine for
state and local governments to pillage for future generations. I'm not a big anti-tax guy, but creating
"new and improved taxes" only makes it easier for future governments to bail themselves out of irresponsible behavior.The duplicity that this candidate has exhibited, make it seem as if he has been training to be a politician all of his life.
It's going to be either governor candyazzer or governor Humpty Dumpty come November. Whatever happens, I'm going to have some fun with it. If gov frumpy wins, we'll probably get to see him lose his pants at some official ceremony. Or at the very least he'll sneeze all over some handicapped kid in a wheelchair. The temperamental rich guy has an almost unlimited potential for inspiring retorts, zingers and self-induced public humiliation.
When there are only two choices and ONE will result in 100% assured continuation of policies that make Illinois worst in job creation, worst in unfunded pensions, and second worst in property tax burden it is quite clear that anyone willing to shove their digits into their excretory orifice is a huge part of the problem.
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Look, it is exceedingly simple --
