girls from Michigan (Chicago, Washington, Madison: house, theatre, high school)

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Anthera

I am so stealing this phrase. You have a great writing style.

ETA - should I share the phrase "Upper White Trash"?

I agree,

You can include any upscale people who use terms like "professional student" when describing someone who pursues their interest.

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

What the hell? The places are still big cities!

Cleveland and Detroit I understand

Actually many sunbelt cities have a higher percentge of people with college degrees. Texas cities: from what I read, and I could find sources: Dallas, Houston, and Austin (and Atlanta in Georgia) all have a higher precentage of residents with a college degree and those that work in the sciences.

Then you have Ralieigh/research triangle in North Carolina. Minneapolis (and of course Madison) also rank higher in this area as well.

What is with this attitude that Chicago, L.A., San Fran, and New York are the cultured places and everywhere else might as well be small towns?

Boston. You forgot Boston.

And any good college town is usually pretty sophisticated.

I still want to know what cities you have lived in. If you'd lived in Houston or Detroit you would know what we're saying.

And Westchester - I've lived in Chicag a long time and I'm not sure where it is - maybe somewhere west. Its on that part of the Chicagoland map where it says "Here Be Dragons".

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Maybe a building for reforming college women gone bad?

No, I like the innocent ones. I am the one that makes them bad and wild.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Anthera

Boston. You forgot Boston.

And any good college town is usually pretty sophisticated.

I still want to know what cities you have lived in. If you'd lived in Houston or Detroit you would know what we're saying.

And Westchester - I've lived in Chicag a long time and I'm not sure where it is - maybe somewhere west. Its on that part of the Chicagoland map where it says "Here Be Dragons".

Westchester is about 15 miles directly west of the loop.

I haven't really actually lived in any other cities, just travelled to a bunch of others. I've never really lived in Chicago, just worked downtown once several years ago.

The reason why I'm defensive about Michigan is that my Alma Maters there. In the upper peninsul actually, many were from the Detroit area. I then went to grad school in a small western town where people wore cowboy hats.

My career is in natural resources/geography. I expect students to absord knowledge such how to work with, read, and understand topographic maps, and understand groundwater, etc.etc,.

People who spend a lot of time outdoors weather its recreationalists or farm-kids who fished and hunted sometimes have a slight tendency to understand this material and UNDERSTAND THEIR RELEVANCE.

And I judge a place by the ability of people to relate to this stuff. I've taken urban students out to fieldtrips to state parks, etc. and I tell them plain out that in order to call yourself a well-rounded educated individual you need to have an awareness of your own regional natural environment.

Michiganders, even those in Metro Detroit go "up north" to Traverse City or wherever. I have students in Chicago area that think anything north of the state line is the other side of the moon. Thats an issue. And its ignorant to me.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

The reason why I'm defensive about Michigan is that my Alma Maters there. In the upper peninsul actually, many were from the Detroit area.

Michigan Tech, I imagine. I know a few people who have gone there, and it's a small enough school that you may actually know them...

[AK123]

Originally Posted by Anthera

Boston. You forgot Boston.

And any good college town is usually pretty sophisticated.

I still want to know what cities you have lived in. If you'd lived in Houston or Detroit you would know what we're saying.

Houston? I take offense to that. Houston has the largest medical district in the world, home to several medical innovations and pioneers. Lots of research activity among those institutions and Rice University. Plus the energy industry, NASA, and all the associated engineers and scientists that come along with that.

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by AK123

Houston? I take offense to that. Houston has the largest medical district in the world, home to several medical innovations and pioneers. Lots of research activity among those institutions and Rice University. Plus the energy industry, NASA, and all the associated engineers and scientists that come along with that.

Its not a very sophisticated place. The things you mentioned are very nice but irrelevent. Science is not culture. I've spent time in Houston, really nice people, not a world class city.

Most people don't automatically associate "engineer" and "sophisticated">

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Westchester is about 15 miles directly west of the loop.

I haven't really actually lived in any other cities, just travelled to a bunch of others. I've never really lived in Chicago, just worked downtown once several years ago.

The reason why I'm defensive about Michigan is that my Alma Maters there. In the upper peninsul actually, many were from the Detroit area. I then went to grad school in a small western town where people wore cowboy hats.

My career is in natural resources/geography. I expect students to absord knowledge such how to work with, read, and understand topographic maps, and understand groundwater, etc.etc,.

People who spend a lot of time outdoors weather its recreationalists or farm-kids who fished and hunted sometimes have a slight tendency to understand this material and UNDERSTAND THEIR RELEVANCE.

And I judge a place by the ability of people to relate to this stuff. I've taken urban students out to fieldtrips to state parks, etc. and I tell them plain out that in order to call yourself a well-rounded educated individual you need to have an awareness of your own regional natural environment.

Michiganders, even those in Metro Detroit go "up north" to Traverse City or wherever. I have students in Chicago area that think anything north of the state line is the other side of the moon. Thats an issue. And its ignorant to me.

Okay,

I guessed that you really hadn't lived in any major cities by the way you were comparing them. College towns are great. I went to school in A2 & Evanston. Love them both. Most college towns are interesting. Most big cities are not.

I have heard of Westchester, but its really not a big place, nor a long established town.


There is a difference between (I hate the term, but) "world class" cities and other big cities. The amount of cultural resources is very different. And believe me, Chicago is behind NYC, and London in this respect.

Lots of Chicagoans go to Wisconsin to vacation. We have scads of neighbors who went ot Madison and think Wisconsin is the worlds greatest vacation spot. The same for all those who vaction in Michigan. Lots of nature lovers here. (I prefer the mountains).

Understanding and respecting natural resources in a different thingthan comparing cities. I would almost say it was intuitive. You either have it or you don't. Something is whacky with a student who goes to Michigan Tech and then complains about the lack of urban amenities. Some sort of insecurity. But, really some kids just like to complain. It makes them feel important. The next time some little twit complains just look at him and say "Why are you here? If you like cultural amenities why aren't you (for a tech student) at MIT or CalTech?"

[nJohn]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Westchester isnt distant. Its directly west not even in DuPage County/west of 294.

Exactly my point!! You say your relatives in small-town Wisconsin have liberal beliefs and like and wine and culture!! Exactly my point. I grew here in the suburbs, and have lived in a few rural areas for jobs/college and after seeing sophisticated people in "podunkville" I got annoyed with Chicagoans suggesting otherwise.

There is a reason why I particularly support the belief that country-folk educated in their own ways. My career is in natural resources and geography and to me since I teach this stuff . .

anyone who can interpret a topgraphic map, knows their local native flora, knows how long the growing season is, knows how much an acre is, knows the relationship between surface water, groundwater, the water table and welling drilling, knows what a ridge is, (pretty basic stuff to me) is smarter than someone who is ignorant of this. And since knowledge of this stuff is important to me, I get frustrated teaching some urban/surburbanites at the college level, I do get frustrated because I know I might have an easier time teaching this stuff in a more rural/small environment.

I think it's how we are socialized and it's simply not emphasized as much in urban and suburban culture. In my geology course we're studying topographic maps and how certain moraines were formed by glaciers that lead to Lake Michigan. I can't help but appreciate the ground that I walk and drive on and this coming from a kid who lived in both said cultures.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by nJohn

I think it's how we are socialized and it's simply not emphasized as much in urban and suburban culture. In my geology course we're studying topographic maps and how certain moraines were formed by glaciers that lead to Lake Michigan. I can't help but appreciate the ground that I walk and drive on and this coming from a kid who lived in both said cultures.

I'm glad you do appreciate it. Thats usually all a teacher is asking for. It makes all the difference in the world.

In fact I find some sort of power trip pleasure in knowing I have influence over the grade of students who have an attitude and expect to be entertained and not put forth effort. This actually makes urban/suburban culture more likeable. I get paid to influence others the way they should be influenced.