Where Cook Co. residents come from (Chicago, Springfield: bankrupt, schools, tax)

[Lookout Kid]

There are two trends at work in Chicago that explain the inter-migration between Cook and DuPage Counties:

1. There is the rejuvenation of city neighborhoods, which started with gays, young people, and empty nesters--but has now expanded to families who prefer an urban lifestyle ot a suburban one.

2. White flight continues in some collar city neighborhoods and certain inner suburbs.

While the numbers in to Cook County from DuPage County don't equal the outflow from Cook to DuPage, Cook County has relatively even population growth. Therefore, people are coming into Cook County from other areas as well.

I think we will continue to see a transformation in the central city in coming decades, and school options will increase with demand. Higher-income inner suburbs with good school districts will actually improve in spite of Cook County taxes. The future of DuPage county is tied heavily to transportation options. The automobile made the outer suburbs a possibility in the first place, and their future is tied directly to the future of the automobile unless other options are developed.

[JDubsMom]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

But you have to admit, that would be pretty cool though.

\, they would certainly extend my options in some cases.

[JDubsMom]

Originally Posted by carolinabredchicagoan

ah. No claws. Clearly i was misinformed.

i guess we were both being a touch defensive.



I know that many companies have suburban hqs. I guess my point is that without chicago as a nucleus for all of this other activity, the likelihood of such an economy developing is much slimmer. The infrastructure. The roads. The airports. The railroads. The ports and rivers and canals. This is all stuff that has caused chicago to become a place of significance for the last century and a half. The surrounding area has enjoyed these benefits as well. Therefore, to poopoo the city seems a little strange. And it isn't like we're detroit or something. The city continues to thrive and attract business. We're not hemorrhaging population or being consumed by blight. Parts of the city suck, sure. I don't know if i want to raise kids here. Then again, no disrespect to the chicago burbs, but if i'm not going to be in this city, which i find vibrant and fascinating, i'm going somewhere warmer and cheaper.



nor am i. Different strokes, indeed.

ITA, good luck in finding your Utopia.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

There are two trends at work in Chicago that explain the inter-migration between Cook and DuPage Counties:

1. There is the rejuvenation of city neighborhoods, which started with gays, young people, and empty nesters--but has now expanded to families who prefer an urban lifestyle ot a suburban one.

2. White flight continues in some collar city neighborhoods and certain inner suburbs.

While the numbers in to Cook County from DuPage County don't equal the outflow from Cook to DuPage, Cook County has relatively even population growth. Therefore, people are coming into Cook County from other areas as well.

I think we will continue to see a transformation in the central city in coming decades, and school options will increase with demand. Higher-income inner suburbs with good school districts will actually improve in spite of Cook County taxes. The future of DuPage county is tied heavily to transportation options. The automobile made the outer suburbs a possibility in the first place, and their future is tied directly to the future of the automobile unless other options are developed.

I think that transportation options will have somewhat of an effect on the growth on the Chicago area, but not in the dramatic ways that some are predicting. An assumption that people will give up cars and suburban single-family home en masse to return to the city, even with rising fuel costs (which also happened back in the 1970s, by the way, but didn't stem the tide of city-to-suburb migration), is what is hoped for by those who push urban development yet is really more based on anecdotal evidence. People that are choosing to live in the city are the types of people that are pre-disposed to living in an urban setting in the first place (with cost of gas considerations possibly putting them over the top in that choice), but that can't be projected on what has become the majority of people in this country (I'm not saying this is right, but rather stating what is now fact) who now live in suburbs as opposed to cities or, conversely, rural areas. Plus, this is exclusive of real estate price considerations. While the cost of gas has risen dramatically, the cost of real estate in the city (at least in the safe neighborhoods that are key for families with children) is also expensive both on an absolute and a square-foot basis compared to even the wealthiest suburbs. Very few people have unlimited financial means, so they have to make a choice between either (a) paying more for gas/dealing with longer commute times or (b) paying more for their house/balancing how much space they want. As much as gas costs, real estate price differences run in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars and square footages vary drastically, so it's not quite as simple as saying that the population will definitely pick up and move back inward (particularly when the population of the Chicago area continues to grow) because not everyone could afford it even if they wanted to.

Also, DuPage County is pretty much built up and has little room for growth, so its population figures have already plateaued. The greater impact long-term will be the counties west of the DuPage (i.e. Kane, Kendall, DeKalb, McHenry, etc.) which are where new housing developments sprung up quickly during the latest real estate boom but are truly super-commutes to downtown Chicago (although somewhat manageable for intra-suburban commutes to Naperville or Schaumburg).

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I think that transportation options will have somewhat of an effect on the growth on the Chicago area, but not in the dramatic ways that some are predicting. An assumption that people will give up cars and suburban single-family home en masse to return to the city, even with rising fuel costs (which also happened back in the 1970s, by the way, but didn't stem the tide of city-to-suburb migration), is what is hoped for by those who push urban development yet is really more based on anecdotal evidence.

Well, of course that is speculative. But the oil embargo in the 70s didn't push prices high enough to have a real impact on urban development, and it was only a temporary event. If we have sustained higher fuel costs that make cars a thing of the past, the outer suburbs will have to re-organize themselves around a new transportation system. This is assuming we don't just find a new affordable way to fuel private automobiles!

The automobile made the outer suburbs, and the outer suburbs are completely dependent on the automobile in their current state. Instead of pushing everyone into the city, the death of the private automobile could just densify the outer suburbs around transportation nodes. This would facilitate a difference kind of growth. Saying that DuPage county is "built up" assumes that everything will stay the same in the future.

[aragx6]

Well Westmont High didn't meet its 2007 expectations and only 50.9% of the students meet or exceed standards according to the Interactive Illinois Report Card

The Junior high didn't meet Academic Yearly Progress either.

If you compare that to the schools surrounding it such as Downers Grove, the results are pretty striking.

[JDubsMom]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Well Westmont High didn't meet its 2007 expectations and only 50.9% of the students meet or exceed standards according to the Interactive Illinois Report Card

The Junior high didn't meet Academic Yearly Progress either.

If you compare that to the schools surrounding it such as Downers Grove, the results are pretty striking.

I thought we were comparing Westmont to Chicago Public High Schools.

[aragx6]

I certainly wasn't.

I was suggesting, as others did, that Westmont is hardly the utopia you attempted to portray it as, and the schools there are the major reason why real estate in Westmont is significantly lower than its neighbors of Oak Brook, Willowbrook, Downers Grove and Clarendon Hills.

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan

Out of curiosity, do you have any data to support that?

Also, I'm guessing these are young people who enjoy having stuff to do...

I would have to second this person's question. Chicago drove IL into bankruptcy? UMMM I think its quite the other way around my friend. Almost all of the major employers and tax generators for the state are located in Chicago or Cook Cty. Farms (of which IL is mostly made up of) are real pretty and all, but don't generate hardly a darn dime for Blago's spending bills, so where do you think all that money comes from for our roads that are finally after 30 years being updated? You guessed it, that county that is breaking the bank in Springfield as you put it, you know the one where most people live; Cook Cty.

And yes, young folks are flooding into the city and inner ring burbs again, not only for stuff to do, but how about getting to work and not having to pour $80 every other day into their gas tanks?

[JDubsMom]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I certainly wasn't.

I was suggesting, as others did, that Westmont is hardly the utopia you attempted to portray it as, and the schools there are the major reason why real estate in Westmont is significantly lower than its neighbors of Oak Brook, Willowbrook, Downers Grove and Clarendon Hills.

Again, the schools being a major issue connected to property values in Westmont which BTW are equal to and in some instance above Chicago's is simply based on your opinion. You have nothing legitimate to back that up, that is unless you've surveyed all the residents who have left Westmont for that reason. At least we aren't fleeing for our lives for fear of being gunned down in the streets.

For decades Chicago has been dominated by perpetually gang ridden, dysfunctional schools, underachieving schools, yet that lifelong fact hasn't kept the property values of some Chicago neighborhoods from plummeting. That alone blows a huge hole in your theory. You can't have it both ways.

At the end of the day all that matters to me is Westmont is MY UTOPIA. As someone who is not a Chicago transplant but a native, who grew up there, has friends and family still stuck there and sees little to nothing about it has changed for decades, I think I am in a better position to judge the quality of life of both places unlike someone who recently moved to Chicago and has never lived in Westmont. We could go on with the topic forever and since I don't wish to continue, I'll just agree to disagree.

You know what they say one man's junk is another man's treasure.