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The word "quickly" is from the Greek TACHU meaning shortly, without delay, soon. Why would Christ say He was coming quickly, shortly, soon and without delay if two long millenniums of time were to stretch out between His promise and its fulfillment? If such was the case, He either lied, deceived, or was mistaken. Two thousand years are not soon, shortly, or without delay by the stretch of anybody's imagination.
The Bible has many parables where the master goes away and says he will return shortly, yet it always takes longer that people thought. Could it be that your sense of time is different from God's sense of time? Maybe 2000 years is nothing for God, although it seems like a long time for you. No, my friend, He did not lie, or deceive us.
what do you make of the book of Revelation? As with the concept of a literal hell,I can't fathom God being so cruel as to literally pour out all the horrible plagues mentioned in the book of Rev. upon the earth,esp. on purpose.(I can beleive they are caused by man though).And I can't imagine something like that would be 'for our own good'.Jesus didn't wreck havoc upon the earth when He came,He did only good,so this just doesn't make any sense.
thanks for any thoughts,UR's
If we are to view revelations literally, then the beast will be easy to spot, not that many multi headed monsters around, just keep an eye out for one of those, a no brainer to me.
One big nuke may even take care of the creature, then we can go about our business. Unless it is Ghidra, then we might need Godzillas help.
The Bible has many parables where the master goes away and says he will return shortly, yet it always takes longer that people thought.
How will people receive Him, except He come to them?
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. (John 14:17-18)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Could it be that your sense of time is different from God's sense of time? Maybe 2000 years is nothing for God, although it seems like a long time for you. No, my friend, He did not lie, or deceive us.
Absolutely, He did not lie - it's important to note that none of us know the hour, because He has a time for every man.
Absolutely, He did not lie - it's important to note that none of us know the hour, because He has a time for every man.
John 14:16-18 is about Pentecost...the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...how is it that you import another idea into this? Also, the thief in the night, I am coming quickly, I am coming soon, is not about the above bolded either....what hermeneutic allows you this liberal approach?
Repentance comes from within the fire. God is a consuming fire, and He addresses man's unbelief and pride through His presence and glory. This process breaks us down, eliminating our pride. And when we are brought low, then He is there to lift us up again and exalt us. When we exalt ourselves, we get abased. When HE exalts us, it is because we are humble
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This pretty well sums it up in a nutshell, doesn't it? Pride refuses to down easy. Takes lots o' fire to do it. Better to humble yourself now before He does it.
what do you make of the book of Revelation? As with the concept of a literal hell,I can't fathom God being so cruel as to literally pour out all the horrible plagues mentioned in the book of Rev. upon the earth,esp. on purpose.(I can beleive they are caused by man though).And I can't imagine something like that would be 'for our own good'.Jesus didn't wreck havoc upon the earth when He came,He did only good,so this just doesn't make any sense.
thanks for any thoughts,UR's
Just a thought on this verse:
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb, 11and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.
Consider this as a possibility. Rev 14:10-11 is a description of what's happening right now in this world. It is done in the presence of Jesus.
It is 'torment', not meaning 'torture', but meaning testing/refining as in how metal is tested for purity in a refinery.
"ages of ages"? perhaps: in the OT a man's life is consider an 'age'. Ages of ages - symbolizing all of mankind's lives - all being tested and purified in fire - spiritual fire - the trials and tribulations of this world.
What is the "beast"? The beast is our own carnal nature. (Ecc 3:18 says men are beasts - we sit in the temple proclaiming ourselves to be 'god'). In short, we are the beast when we think we are in control and do as we please not acknowledging who the real boss is: God. The "mark" is taken by anyone who follows this beast. ie. this means ALL OF US.
Rev 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
ALL worship the beast - all have the mark. We worship the beast by worshiping ourselves. We all have done it. We all have the mark - that is, UNTIL one realizes who the beast is and then come to acknowledge Christ. Those not in the book of life do not know Christ yet. They are not in 'his rest'. What does it mean to acknowledge Christ? Confessing and believing in Him and knowing Him. What does that mean?:
1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
If we love one another - we KNOW God. That is what it is all about. The carnal beast is SELFISH. Knowing God is the opposite of that.
Those who worship the beast 'have no rest night or day'. Sounds like many people in this world. They are trying to rest in their own works instead of resting in Christ's finished work. No one has true rest until they realize they can rest in what Christ did for us all and give up all these doctrines and works that say man must do this or that OR ELSE. This is tied to the sabbath command. Christ is our sabbath. We must enter His rest.
JMHO I could be wrong on some of this, I'm trying to piece it together myself. But I hope people can see this is a lot deeper than being thrown into fire to be tortured forever (or even for ages).
The word "quickly" is from the Greek TACHU meaning shortly, without delay, soon. Why would Christ say He was coming quickly, shortly, soon and without delay if two long millenniums of time were to stretch out between His promise and its fulfillment? If such was the case, He either lied, deceived, or was mistaken. Two thousand years are not soon, shortly, or without delay by the stretch of anybody's imagination.
His last word to the Churches is: "I am coming quickly," and this is the testimony of the One who is Faithful and true. He makes His coming to be the "next thing" for the Christian. He sets up neither time nor event between Himself and His body. He takes special pains to assure His people that there is no required delay, no parenthesis of time between Him and the saints. He uses a word which from the earliest days of classic Greek signifies "without delay." When therefore, He says, "I am coming (for He uses the present tense),"He says actually, "I am coming, I am already in the process of coming, and there shall be no delay." It would be impossible to use language which could more adequately, and without reserve, teach that the coming of Christ is a present and continuous event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer
How will people receive Him, except He come to them?
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. (John 14:17-18)
Absolutely, He did not lie - it's important to note that none of us know the hour, because He has a time for every man.
One big AMEN!
If we are able to hear it, Jesus told Saul that he was persecuting Him! "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." (Acts 9) Saul was persecuting believers, but Jesus was in them, just as He is in us now.
So the coming of Jesus is indeed a continuous event.
Praise God! There are SO FEW who see this!
The book of Revelation itself tells us what it is.
Chapters 1-3 are letters to the seven churchs
Chapters 4-22 John (who is bound by time, space and earthly known facts) is now being told how God\Jesus sees things from their perspective (who are not bound by time, space and earthly known facts)
For that reason Chapters 4-22 is apocalyptic. The events, places, people ect. are factual...the description of them and all the numbers are figurative.
For example:
and earthly known fact is that gold is one of the more dense minerals
in heaven the gold roads are described as clear transparent glass.
Jesus asended into heaven (the angels proclaim that he will return) in the appearence John recognized
Jesus' description in 4-22 was not whom John recogonized
Jesus himself while on earth would say.."the kingdom of heaven is like....." . It's not that heaven doesn't exist, rather nothing exists that can accuratly describe heaven that humans can relate to.
Revelation is no different; there are many "is like" in chapters 4-22.
John sees Jesus in his full glory ... but how do you decsribe that
John sees Jesus as God and at the same time part of the Trinity ... how do you describe that
Jesus' voice is loud ... how do you describe it
The throne of God is real ... how do you describe it
Heaven is real ... how do you decsribe it
Satan is real .. how do you describe him
Hell is real ... how do you describe it
John gets to see how God see's things. Most people are incorrect in thinking that chapters 4-22 are a timeline. When in fact they are more like us watching a sports event from different angles.
That is what is so unfortunate about Milleniumism. They look at some world event and point to some passage in Rev hoping to see where that fits in the "timeline". That isn't the purpose of Rev.
Revelation's message is that evil will attempt to derail God, will attempt to bring misery and panic among the chosen, God's time of grace is limited and Jesus is the VICTOR !!!
We as Christians are to take comfort because to an eternal God,... Jesus' return will be soon.
Are we still talking about the 2nd coming, or did you already venture to a new topic?
I never mentioned the 2nd coming - only what I feel He is showing us that there is not one. I heard one preacher say as he was starting to see it:
Before He comes FOR His church, He's coming TO His church!
If we can start looking for Him to be glorified in our lives TODAY instead of being consumed with future events, people would realize that the Kingdom is within us and bursting to come forth.
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This pretty well sums it up in a nutshell, doesn't it? Pride refuses to down easy. Takes lots o' fire to do it. Better to humble yourself now before He does it.
