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I agree with you 100% that each person must decide for him/herself. In the case of others being attacked, there are many ways to intervene without having to kill the attacker. That's what I'm seeing so much of here, it's all or nothing, kill or be killed.
But real life is not black and white. There are many ways to deal with dangerous real-life situations. Killing needn't even be an option.
For a Christian, it is never an option.
Blessings,
brian
I have to say I really see things the way Pleroo does here. But I also understand what you are saying too, Brian. (I really do.) I think though, that there are gray areas that need to be seen and looked at. THIS world is not black and white. It is also not a utopia. And if all light is allowed to be extinguished, then there will be nothing but darkness.
I understand fully the idealist view. But that view, while noble and good and I believe the highest level we should attain to and strive for, does not always transfer to reality.
Be back later to expound on what I mean with some examples..
I understand fully the idealist view. But that view, while noble and good and I believe the highest level we should attain to and strive for, does not always transfer to reality.
Couldn't agree more sparrow. I hope you know, Brian, that I appreciate and respect your passion about this topic. We need idealists in this world to hold us accountable and make us take a step back and think through our motives and the ramifications of our actions. I hope my posts don't indicate differently.
We need idealists in this world to hold us accountable and make us take a step back and think through our motives and the ramifications of our actions.
Yes! Such a great point, Pleroo and I'm really glad you mentioned it.
Yes! Such a great point, Pleroo and I'm really glad you mentioned it.
It makes me think of that passage in Timothy ... "don't let anyone look down on you for your youth." It's usually those who are young (or young at heart ) who are the idealists in this world. Their ideals may very well become tempered over time, like the rest of us ... but that doesn't mean we can look down on them in the meantime. We need them! And the idealists can hopefully see that a more moderate view (even when vehemently argued for) does not necessarily mean that we can't or don't have respect for the ideals themselves.
ETA: Sorry June, was posting at the same time as you. Hope you can let this post stand, but understand if you can't.
Is it morally right to celebrate bin Laden's death?
If one call themself a "Christian" and one takes their Christlike life seriously...then the celebration of anyone's death should be morally reprehensible to them...regardless of what the offender has done while living. We are called to display, compassion, loving kindness and forgiveness...AT ALL TIMES...not just when it's convenient or when we feel like it.
See...I see us all as children of the Source/God. We are made in the Sources/Gods image, therefore, we have a part of the Source/God in us and we are all connected to one another and to our Source/God. There are many (and this includes the majority of Christians) who do not recognize this...they are not consciously aware of it, hence, they live for themselves (by their egos) without regard to anyone else, without regard to the effects their actions and words have on other people...without being consciously aware of the connection we all have together...that we are all ONE and come from one source. What Jesus and many other sages teach is that we are to be just like our Source, we have the ability to do this but we have to be serious about it...and this requires that we deny self (our ego) and live Christlike lives...it's as simple as that.
Is it morally right to celebrate bin Laden's death?
If one call themself a "Christian" and one takes their Christlike life seriously...then the celebration of anyone's death should be morally reprehensible to them...regardless of what the offender has done while living. We are called to display, compassion, loving kindness and forgiveness...AT ALL TIMES...not just when it's convenient or when we feel like it.
See...I see us all as children of the Source/God. We are made in the Sources/Gods image, therefore, we have a part of the Source/God in us and we are all connected to one another and to our Source/God. There are many (and this includes the majority of Christians) who do not recognize this...they are not consciously aware of it, hence, they live for themselves (by their egos) without regard to anyone else, without regard to the effects their actions and words have on other people...without being consciously aware of the connection we all have together...that we are all ONE and come from one source. What Jesus and many other sages teach is that we are to be just like our Source, we have the ability to do this but we have to be serious about it...and this requires that we deny self (our ego) and live Christlike lives...it's as simple as that.
I was going to start a thread about something, but I think it may fit as a response here, so here goes:
I've been living in Italy for a while now. (14 years almost)
People here are mostly against war, no matter what the "purpose." And the reason they are against it (according to what they tell me) is because they've experienced war on their own territory: they've seen their own friends, neighbors and family killed (in WWII). Some of them are still around to tell me about what they saw. And they remember it well.
I think that America, some day, will have to eat some very humble pie. The rejoicing in the streets of NYC comes across as arrogant, ignorant, animal-like, and naive. America has not seen war on its own soil yet (forget about Pearl Harbor, I'm talking about cities destroyed and people laying dead all over the place).
But someday it may happen. No empire lasts forever. The Chinese Empire didn't last, the Roman Empire didn't last, the British Empire didn't last, and the American Empire won't last.
I certainly hope that America doesn't see what some countries (such as Italy) has seen firsthand about war. Because Italians don't celebrate it, and probably never will, because they have lost enough of their own families to know that it's better to live in peace than to see your family and friends killed fighting for a cause.
The fact that America calls itself a "Christian nation" while it supports war, is insulting to Christians, imo. If war ever ends up on American soil, America won't be celebrating the killing anymore. 9/11 was nothing compared to what Italians lived through in WWII. Nothing.
People here are mostly against war, no matter what the "purpose." And the reason they are against it (according to what they tell me) is because they've experienced war on their own territory: they've seen their own friends, neighbors and family killed (in WWII). Some of them are still around to tell me about what they saw. And they remember it well.
They would have to be around to talk about it. The younger people (90% of Italians) have NOT seen it. Maybe that is why crime and violence is out of control in many Italian cities.
Quote:
I think that America, some day, will have to eat some very humble pie. The rejoicing in the streets of NYC comes across as arrogant, ignorant, animal-like, and naive. America has not seen war on its own soil yet (forget about Pearl Harbor, I'm talking about cities destroyed and people laying dead all over the place).
It happend in 9/11, which is why you should NOT judge them as arrogant, ignorant, animal-like, and naive. You don't know if they celebrate the death, or the fact that the war is closer to end now.
If you think American families have not experienced the loss of their own friends, neighbors and family because of wars, then you don't know what you are talking about.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-04-2011 at 03:15 PM..
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) who are the idealists in this world. Their ideals may very well become tempered over time, like the rest of us ... but that doesn't mean we can look down on them in the meantime. We need them! 
And the idealists can hopefully see that a more moderate view (even when vehemently argued for) does not necessarily mean that we can't or don't have respect for the ideals themselves.