Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It depends how you receive the message. Some feel sorrow and repent. Some see the overwhelming Good News and rejoice with repentance following. God works differently with each.
You are not a sinner untill you are of an age where you understand what is is.
As a child you are safe with God.
If you we're not old enough to feel sorrow about anything then you we're still innocent in God's eyes.
Thats why he said unless you become as a child you cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven.
That meant to be pure and innocent.
In Acts 9 it does not say that the Eunich felt sorrow when he was shared the good news of Jesus Christ. It only mentions that after his baptism, he "went on his way rejoicing."
Mike555 has told me that I am lost because I believe baptism is necessary for salvation. He says that I am trying to be saved by works and not by faith. He calls it "works based salvation."
Aside from the fact that Jesus commanded it, Jesus also said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved."
Well, here's the thing. I believe, and I was baptized. Do I believe what Mike555 says, or do I believe what Jesus, my Lord and Savior says?
I'm not saying "don't get baptized". But I don't believe getting dunked in a pool of water saves a person. There are circumstances where someone might believe on Christ and find life in Him but not have been baptized yet and die without having had the opportunity. I would not want to worry their loved ones over the matter. God is gracious. Some think when Jesus was baptized he did that for every person, why else would Jesus have need to be baptized by John?
Hello Heart,
I agree that there can be circumstances beyond the control of a person who has come to believe in Jesus, but is prevented for some reason from getting baptized. I think those occasions are extremely rare. I personally know of no one who has experienced this.
None of us know how God will deal with these people. I would like to believe that He knows their heart, and will take care of them. I know that God is fair and just, so I leave these things in His hands.
However, the scenario you describe is NOT the norm. Anyone who has heard the command of Jesus to be baptized MUST obey.
It is beyond my understanding how someone can claim to be a follower of Jesus, and yet teach that a person doesn't need to follow His command to be baptized. Jesus flat out tells us that it is NECESSARY to do the will of His Father, to put His words into practice, and to hold to His teaching. How can anyone doubt that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Jesus' words?
Jesus asked his disciples: "Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say unto you"
"Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Mt. 7:21)
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” (Matthew 7:24-27)
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.[/b]Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32)
In spite of being a member of the Apostolic Church I nolonger believe that baptism is necessary for
salvation. I believe we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross ,His grace by faith.
Now my "personal" take beyond the key points above are that baptism is a command NOT a work
as many claim it to be . I believe it's an intergral "step" that follows believing in the Son of Man and repentance. What comes after the baptism is the infilling of the Holy Spirit or baptism in the Holy
Spirit. Addtionally, I believe what Jesus was telling the apostles in Matt 28:19 was to go out baptizing in HIS name (singular name that embodies the triune. Peter "got it" (message) in Matt
when in Acts 2;38 he gave instructions as to the method of baptism. As for "unless a man be born of water and of spirit" he (mankind) will not enter the kingdom of heaven" Many believe the "water"
is baptism others birth water I now believe the later. Many believe the spirit part is evidenced by
speaking in tongues and this I do beieve but I also believe the Holy Spirit dewells when we become believers. The early church fathers debated Acts vs Matt for years and finally dumped the apostles
method and so goes that ol'time religion.
In spite of being a member of the Apostolic Church I nolonger believe that baptism is necessary for
salvation. I believe we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross ,His grace by faith.
Now my "personal" take beyond the key points above are that baptism is a command NOT a work
as many claim it to be . I believe it's an intergral "step" that follows believing in the Son of Man and repentance. What comes after the baptism is the infilling of the Holy Spirit or baptism in the Holy
Spirit. Addtionally, I believe what Jesus was telling the apostles in Matt 28:19 was to go out baptizing in HIS name (singular name that embodies the triune. Peter "got it" (message) in Matt
when in Acts 2;38 he gave instructions as to the method of baptism. As for "unless a man be born of water and of spirit" he (mankind) will not enter the kingdom of heaven" Many believe the "water"
is baptism others birth water I now believe the later. Many believe the spirit part is evidenced by
speaking in tongues and this I do beieve but I also believe the Holy Spirit dewells when we become believers. The early church fathers debated Acts vs Matt for years and finally dumped the apostles
method and so goes that ol'time religion.
Das
The early church fathers, those closest removed from the lives of the apostles, believed and taught, without exception, that baptism was necessary for salvation. I will post the documentation if you'd like.
You make the claim that the ECF's debated Matthew for years. Please provide proof for this.
Baptism is commanded by Jesus. That makes it necessary. How can anyone say Jesus is my Lord and then say baptism isn't necessary? That is in fact denying the authority of Jesus.
Mike555 has told me that I am lost because I believe baptism is necessary for salvation. He says that I am trying to be saved by works and not by faith. He calls it "works based salvation."
Aside from the fact that Jesus commanded it, Jesus also said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved."
Well, here's the thing. I believe, and I was baptized. Do I believe what Mike555 says, or do I believe what Jesus, my Lord and Savior says?
Good to see you. It's been a while since you weighed in on this thread. I thank you for your post, even though I don't agree with you.
It's all about obedient faith, my friend. It always has been, and it always will be.
Jesus commanded it. That makes it necessary. How could you ever call Him Lord, and not do what He said?
BTW, thank you for not telling me I am lost because I believe we have to obey the commandment of Jesus to be baptized. It's nice to know you reserve judgement for Jesus Christ.
Can someone claiming to have faith refuse to obey any of Jesus' commands (including baptism), and expect that such faith will save him? No.
The waters become muddy (excuse the pun!) because preachers are not preaching that baptism is a command of Jesus! Many people don't KNOW they should or are taught it is not a priority to God (i myself was only baptized years after believing the gospel, and went through a course of study before i could?!?) Of course this lack of understanding doesn't excuse those of us who have God's Word in our language and are literate! People need to pick up their Bibles and read, and evaluate what comes from the pulpit and various 'Christian media' we expose ourselves to. Many teachers today go to great lengths to discourage a "works based salvation" and have deliberately minimized Jesus' command to be baptized as a result, scared perhaps that if it is too closely linked to the gospel preaching, people will 'trust' in the act of baptism rather than Jesus for their salvation. You cannot link faith and GOOD WORKS closely enough though! Living faith works!
here's the thing..... If you have received the good news, and know that Jesus commanded you to be baptized, and you refuse (including delaying for no good reason), is that not disobedience? And haven't you then just shown that your profession of faith is not genuine?
If the question is: "if you die on your way to being baptized, were you saved?", then the answer I believe is yes! God knows the INTENTION of your heart, just like He knew it was the full intention of Abraham's heart to sacrifice Isaac... An act of obedience that was never carried out due to divine hindrance.
Acts 10:34-35 God accepts men from every nation who Fear him and DO what is right. Hum, looks like God wants us to DO something.
Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord,Lord and not DO what i say? Hum, looks like God wants us to DO something.
John 6 : 29 The WORK of God is this; To Believe in the one he has sent. What? Belief is a WORK!
John 14 :15 If you love me you will OBEY what I command. What? we have to DO something!
John 14:23 If anyone loves me he will OBEY my teachings.
2 Thess 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and who do not OBEY the Gospel of our Lord Jesus.
What is the Gospel of our Lord Jesus?
That he Died, was buried and he was raised from the dead.
How do you OBEY this?
Romans 6:3-5 Or do you not know that all of us who we're Burried with him in Baptism into Death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, We too may live a NEW life.
If we have been united with him like this in his Death, we will certainly also be united with him in his Resurrection.
Baptism is what puts us into Christ. Through Baptism we OBEY the Gospel. Baptism is where we come into contact with the Blood of Jesus Christ.
Baptism is a STUMBLING block to way too many people! One that will keep you out of Heaven!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
