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Well... you can brush aside the fact that UR's do no less but the fact is the same thing is repeated using the same faulty premises.
The evidence is John 3:36, Matthew 25:30-45, Rev 20-21, Galations 5:19-20, that "never" means "never"... and that "never" then puts all the UR premises\ arguments out of context.
twin.spin, here is the difference.
Finn dishonestly suggests it has been proven that everlasting is literally everlasting.
I and others have repeatedly shown verses where everlasting LITERALLY CANNOT mean everlasting.
Yet it is still suggested it has been proven otherwise. It is dishonest. Why are you intentionally dishonest while trying to defend your "truth"?
Likewise with the verses you posted above. They have been addressed repeatedly from the UR perspective and they do not contradict any UR premise. It is dishonest to post the verse with no explanation and suggest "see, UR is wrong" when in fact UR does see them fitting into context.
Jonah was not in the fish forever. Deny all you want. Therefore a literal 'forever' is not the correct translation.
Finally the above verses you posted above have nothing to do with 'never', other than the fact that sin will not carry on forever. No contradiction with UR, as much as you would like it to.
If you really wanted to understand the truth, perhaps explain why it is said that Jonah was in the fish forever, when clearly it was only 3 days, or why the "everlasting" old covenant was not-so-everlasting-after-all, as it was replaced by the new covenant. Answer these questions honestly and the eternal torment doctrine will fall apart in turn.
Also, FYI, in some cases the word "never" is actually translated from the negative attached to the word "aion", so the correct translation should really be "not for the age".
ie. KJV
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shallneverdie. Believest thou this?
YLT
John 11:26 and every one who is living and believing in me shallnot die -- to the age;
Keep in mind the devil's lie "Surely you will not die" - which translation do you think is more accurate?
Finn dishonestly suggests it has been proven that everlasting is literally everlasting.
I and others have repeatedly shown verses where everlasting LITERALLY CANNOT mean everlasting.
Yet it is still suggested it has been proven otherwise. It is dishonest. Why are you intentionally dishonest while trying to defend your "truth"?
Likewise with the verses you posted above. They have been addressed repeatedly from the UR perspective and they do not contradict any UR premise. It is dishonest to post the verse with no explanation and suggest "see, UR is wrong" when in fact UR does see them fitting into context.
Jonah was not in the fish forever. Deny all you want. Therefore a literal 'forever' is not the correct translation.
Finally the above verses you posted above have nothing to do with 'never', other than the fact that sin will not carry on forever. No contradiction with UR, as much as you would like it to.
If you really wanted to understand the truth, perhaps explain why it is said that Jonah was in the fish forever, when clearly it was only 3 days, or why the "everlasting" old covenant was not-so-everlasting-after-all, as it was replaced by the new covenant. Answer these questions honestly and the eternal torment doctrine will fall apart in turn.
I didn't suggest that "never" was in those particular verses, but where Jesus did say "never" that he meant what he said when he said it.
Why do I have to explain how God spoke what he did?
Other scriptures will clarify the proper understanding of forever which makes the UR premise false.
Also, FYI, in some cases the word "never" is actually translated from the negative attached to the word "aion", so the correct translation should really be "not for the age".
ie. KJV
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shallneverdie. Believest thou this?
YLT
John 11:26 and every one who is living and believing in me shallnot die -- to the age;
Keep in mind the devil's lie "Surely you will not die" - which translation do you think is more accurate?
In your attempt to prove me wrong.. have you taken the time to ponder what age Jesus was speaking of?
Meaning.. did the woman die in this age?
If she died in this "age" then Jesus is doing what you are accusing me of being or Jesus was refering to the next "age"?
Ultimately, this is all about to prove Jesus wrong or at least delusional.
I didn't suggest that "never" was in those particular verses, but where Jesus did say "never" that he meant what he said when he said it.
Why do I have to explain how God spoke what he did?
Other scriptures will clarify the proper understanding of forever which makes the UR premise false.
'never' is not always the correct translation, sometimes it should be 'not' instead of 'never'. But regardless this is another false argument you raise as if we are disagreeing with what Jesus said.
I agree that some will never enter the reign with Christ. Not all will reign with Him.
So what? This does not mean all are not saved. As noted previously, Christ's reign ends when He delivers all up to God the Father.
Are you thinking of the so-called unpardonable sin?
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Again this is a case of poor translation, because the word 'never' actually comes from negating 'aion' which is referring to an age, not eternity.
YLT:
Mark 3:29 but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'
So what did Jesus mean here? 'Never' or 'not in this age'?
Jesus did not speak English.
So while it is very nice for you to say "I believe Jesus when He said 'never'", the truth of the matter is He never said 'never'!
I didn't suggest that "never" was in those particular verses, but where Jesus did say "never" that he meant what he said when he said it.
Why do I have to explain how God spoke what he did?
Other scriptures will clarify the proper understanding of forever which makes the UR premise false.
Moses told Israel that God would never leave them nor forsake them. Deut 31:6
"For a brief moment I forsook you, But with great compassion I will gather you. Isaiah 54:7
God is gathering all back to Himself, repent and believe it.
Don't take this personally. Its not about proving you wrong. Its simply about exposing contradiction and falsehood - that which is opposite of the truth.
Quote:
have you taken the time to ponder what age Jesus was speaking of?
Meaning.. did the woman die in this age?
If she died in this "age" then Jesus is doing what you are accusing me of being or Jesus was refering to the next "age"?
EVERYONE dies in this age. We are all mortal. It is likely Jesus is talking about the next age when the saints reign with Christ. But it is not completely unambiguous without a full study on end times/eschatology, which is a huge topic.
Moses told Israel that God would never leave them nor forsake them. Deut 31:6
"For a brief moment I forsook you, But with great compassion I will gather you. Isaiah 54:7
God is gathering all back to Himself, repent and believe it.
Yes! Good news pcamps!
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lol
