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Nor is this me saying it also Ephesians 5:25-27, 1 Corinthians 6:11.
1 Peter 3:20-22
God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Noah "were saved through water"... "baptism that now saves you also" .... "It saves you by the ressurection of Jesus Christ".
If the ressurection of Jesus is not complete enough for you, then deny it. But it was sufficient enough for God.
Still not getting it...
The baptism that saves refers to baptism into PEOPLE - not substances - in our case, the person of Christ. It is not about earthly water immersing flesh that is cursed and will return to the ground.
Look at Noah's case. First, no one touched the water. Those who did touch the water, died. Second, and more importantly, those who believed in Noah got on the boat. They believed in Noah in an event that had never before happened on the earth. It wasn't the water - they chose to hitch themselves to Noah, and because of that, they were saved from God's wrath of the flood. They were baptized into Noah.
Now here's Jesus. He preaches a message of defeating death - and salvation from God's wrath. According to Jesus, you must be baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit (into PEOPLE) for this to happen. 1 Pet. 3 - we are saved by the resurrection of Christ. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then the fact that we believed in Him would be worthless. Remember this verse?
1 Corithians 15:29 - Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?
That's the point of this verse. If there is no resurrection of Christ, then what's the whole point of being baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit? We hitch ourselves to Christ because He was raised from the dead - and when we choose to believe in Him, He baptizes us with the Holy Spirit so that we can be resurrected also.
Romans 6:3-4 - Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
We can only claim Rom 6 if we are baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit.
The water in Noah's case is equal to death in Christ's case. The water and the death is judgment. Belief in Noah and Christ is salvation from God's judgment.
The reason Peter says baptism now saves you is because it was no longer about the water represented in John's baptism (removing the dirt from the flesh) - but is now about the internal cleansing of the conscience and the presence of Christ and His resurrection inside of us.
Of course, it doesn't say with water. That would be like me saying I'm going to take a bath with water. I don't have to say "with water" for people to understand that you normally take a bath with water. The same is true of baptism. The addition of the Holy Spirit into baptism doesn't make the water go away.
You really believe that Jesus is not present and participating in our baptism?
As I said about, He didn't have to say "with water" because the people he was talking to knew that baptism was with water and so should we. It makes perfect sense to mention water for John's baptism and not for his own since He is showing the difference between John's baptism and His -- the Holy Spirit is in His baptism but only water is in John's baptism.
I gave you three examples of Jesus baptizing people without water...
So Jesus never mentions water. Jesus tells you how He will baptize. It is mentioned in all the gospels how Jesus will baptize. The baptisms that are chronicled involving the Holy Spirit occur without water. Peter even backs it up in Acts 11 stating that those in Acts 10 were baptized with the Holy Spirit (omitting his own water baptism from the discussion). Yet you say water is invloved.
You are believing in a theory contrary to the evidence in the Bible.
The baptism that saves refers to baptism into PEOPLE - not substances - in our case, the person of Christ. It is not about earthly water immersing flesh that is cursed and will return to the ground.
Look at Noah's case. First, no one touched the water. Those who did touch the water, died. Second, and more importantly, those who believed in Noah got on the boat. They believed in Noah in an event that had never before happened on the earth. It wasn't the water - they chose to hitch themselves to Noah, and because of that, they were saved from God's wrath of the flood. They were baptized into Noah.
Now here's Jesus. He preaches a message of defeating death - and salvation from God's wrath. According to Jesus, you must be baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit (into PEOPLE) for this to happen. 1 Pet. 3 - we are saved by the resurrection of Christ. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then the fact that we believed in Him would be worthless. Remember this verse?
1 Corithians 15:29 - Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?
That's the point of this verse. If there is no resurrection of Christ, then what's the whole point of being baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit? We hitch ourselves to Christ because He was raised from the dead - and when we choose to believe in Him, He baptizes us with the Holy Spirit so that we can be resurrected also.
Romans 6:3-4 - Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
We can only claim Rom 6 if we are baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit.
The water in Noah's case is equal to death in Christ's case. The water and the death is judgment. Belief in Noah and Christ is salvation from God's judgment.
The reason Peter says baptism now saves you is because it was no longer about the water represented in John's baptism (removing the dirt from the flesh) - but is now about the internal cleansing of the conscience and the presence of Christ and His resurrection inside of us.
Your correct ... you're still not getting it.
The water in Noah's case is equal to the water in baptism.
"In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"
The reason Peter says baptism now saves you is because God says it does.
It gets no clearer than that.
Peter wasn't talking about water baptism but baptism into the Holy Spirit.
So tell us who incapable of reading the obvious, what does decision theology actually think God used that "eight in all, were saved through water " that Peter was refering to (about Noah and the flood) if it wasn't the physical water?
I gave you three examples of Jesus baptizing people without water...
Acts 2 - Jews
Acts 10 - Gentiles
If you're referring to people speaking in tongues, I don't believe that's the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Quote:
Acts 19 - John's disciples
Being baptized in the name of Jesus is being baptized in water.
Quote:
However, you said they were exceptions.
I don't believe I said they were exceptions, but if I did I was wrong. They aren't people being baptized without water at all.
Quote:
So Jesus never mentions water. Jesus tells you how He will baptize. It is mentioned in all the gospels how Jesus will baptize. The baptisms that are chronicled involving the Holy Spirit occur without water. Peter even backs it up in Acts 11 stating that those in Acts 10 were baptized with the Holy Spirit (omitting his own water baptism from the discussion). Yet you say water is invloved.
There is no baptism without water. The baptism of the Holy Spirit and baptism in water are the same baptism (see John 3:5 and Ephesians 4:5).
Quote:
You are believing in a theory contrary to the evidence in the Bible.
On the contrary, I'm taking baptism in its literal meaning and not trying to redefine it in order to make it fit my man made doctrine. I used to believe the same thing you do, but I just couldn't abide all the hermeneutical gymnastics that one has to perform in order to maintain that belief.
To baptize means to dip in water. Water is inherent in the word baptize. To baptize into anything other thing than water was an metaphoric use of the word. For example, to be baptize in the Spirit meant to be overwhelmed by the Spirit, not actually baptized in it.
So tell us who incapable of reading the obvious, what does decision theology actually think God used that "eight in all, were saved through water " that Peter was refering to (about Noah and the flood) if it wasn't the physical water?
It is talking about through the Spirit of God. Water is just a type meant to instruct you. Remember the Law of Christ we are free from the Yoke of Necessity except but requires a human oblation. To say someone needs to be baptised in water to be saved is to place the yoke of necessity upon them which is no different than what the Pharisees did.
We are ALL saved because that was Christ's task . . . NOT ours . . . and He Finished it. We are not sanctified (or justified) . . . but we ARE saved. We need to follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't to be sanctified and justified under Christ's grace . . .but NOT to be saved. Our works will face the consequences of any failures in achieving our task . . . but we are "saved as by fire" through the achievements of Christ.
It is talking about through the Spirit of God. Water is just a type meant to instruct you. Remember the Law of Christ we are free from the Yoke of Necessity except but requires a human oblation. To say someone needs to be baptised in water to be saved is to place the yoke of necessity upon them which is no different than what the Pharisees did.
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes andisbaptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Matthew 11:29-30
"Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
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Are you Saved if you have not been Baptised?
