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No, I'm not being evasive, Mike. I simply do not agree with the leaps you are making from what the passages actually say to what you insist they mean. More fundamentally, as I've said, I find your reasoning and the conclusion it leads to untenable. Having once held that same reasoning myself, I can say that you've not ever responded to that in a way that I haven't heard before or that convinces me to reconsider.
I've already shared that I believe the "word of God" to refer to the creative life-giving power of God, and that the good news message proclaimed in the bible is life-giving. I thought we might find some meeting of the minds on that point but if we disagree on that, too, so be it. It happens.
If Paul said (and he did) that his message was the word of God, then that is exactly what he meant. There is no leap involved.
Let me ask you two very specific questions. I brought to your attention the fact that God the Father gave to Jesus Christ Revelation to give to John. This is shown in Revelation 1:1. The book of Revelation is the result of that Revelation of Jesus Christ to John.
1.) Do you disagree with the fact that since the book of Revelation is the result of the Revelation which God the Father gave to Jesus who disclosed that Revelation to John, that that makes the book of Revelation the word of God?
Now read Matthew 4:4 Jesus said this. But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"
Now the second question is,
2.) Is the word which proceeds out of the mouth of God, the word of God?
If Paul said (and he did) that his message was the word of God, then that is exactly what he meant. There is no leap involved.
Let me ask you two very specific questions. I brought to your attention the fact that God the Father gave to Jesus Christ Revelation to give to John. This is shown in Revelation 1:1. The book of Revelation is the result of that Revelation of Jesus Christ to John.
1.) Do you disagree with the fact that since the book of Revelation is the result of the Revelation which God the Father gave to Jesus who disclosed that Revelation to John, that that makes the book of Revelation the word of God?
Mike, the leap you are making is insisting that the bible -- the collection of books (exactly which books differs somewhat depending on who you ask) -- is equivalent to the word of God.
Quote:
Now read Matthew 4:4 Jesus said this. But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"
Now the second question is,
2.) Is the word which proceeds out of the mouth of God, the word of God?
Do you believe God has a mouth? Obviously this is not literal.
The quote, which comes from Deuteromony. says: `And He doth humble thee, and cause thee to hunger and doth cause thee to eat the manna (which thou hast not known, even thy fathers have not known), in order to cause thee to know that not by bread alone doth man live, but by every produce of the mouth of Jehovah man doth live.
As Jesus said, `According as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, he also who is eating me, even that one shall live because of me; this is the bread that came down out of the heaven; not as your fathers did eat the manna, and died; he who is eating this bread shall live -- to the age.'
If you are implying that Jesus was referring to the Bible here, I'd say you are mistaken.
Mike, the leap you are making is insisting that the bible -- the collection of books (exactly which books differs somewhat depending on who you ask) -- is equivalent to the word of God.
Do you believe God has a mouth? Obviously this is not literal.
The quote, which comes from Deuteromony. says: `And He doth humble thee, and cause thee to hunger and doth cause thee to eat the manna (which thou hast not known, even thy fathers have not known), in order to cause thee to know that not by bread alone doth man live, but by every produce of the mouth of Jehovah man doth live.
As Jesus said, `According as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, he also who is eating me, even that one shall live because of me; this is the bread that came down out of the heaven; not as your fathers did eat the manna, and died; he who is eating this bread shall live -- to the age.'
If you are implying that Jesus was referring to the Bible here, I'd say you are mistaken.
You are indeed being purposely evasive. I didn't ask you about anthropomorphisms ascribed to God (mouth, hands, etc...) I asked you if what God says is the word of God.
And I directly asked you if you disagree with the book of Revelation being the word of God considering that it is the result of God the Father giving to Jesus Christ Revelation to disclose to John who wrote the book of Revelation.
You are indeed being purposely evasive. I didn't ask you about anthropomorphisms ascribed to God (mouth, hands, etc...) I asked you if what God says is the word of God.
And I directly asked you if you disagree with the book of Revelation being the word of God considering that it is the result of God the Father giving to Jesus Christ Revelation to disclose to John who wrote the book of Revelation.
Mike ... I am not being evasive simply because I don't answer the way you want me to.
No, I do not consider the book of Revelation to be the Word of God. It does, however, speak OF the Word of God: the Christ which is being revealed in us.
Mike ... I am not being evasive simply because I don't answer the way you want me to.
No, I do not consider the book of Revelation to be the Word of God. It does, however, speak OF the Word of God: the Christ which is being revealed in us.
aisi
Therein lies the problem. You do not accept the Word of God as the Word of God. You must first come to a faith in God and His Word. Until then your just talking about something you cannot understand.
If it is the inerrant word of god...do you take unruly children to the edge of town and stone them?
Do you war clothes of different weaves of fiber?
No one thinks the bible is the inerrant word of god because if it was people would be obeying all of it. I was a Chaplain, and theological thought throughout the last 2 thousand years has been to understand god...not just blindly obey.
If you understood the bible and who was being addressed in the passages you reference you would know how stupid your comments are.
Did you read the part where it said I was a Chaplin?
Are you seriously saying I don't know the word of god when I ministered to soldiers going off to die?
Biblical literacy and inerrantcy is the worst of Christianity. It perverts gods love to slavish obeying to parts of the bible people like...then claiming everyone who doesn't agree simply doesn't understand it well enough.
Did you read the part where it said I was a Chaplin?
Are you seriously saying I don't know the word of god when I ministered to soldiers going off to die?
Yes I saw where you said you "were a Chaplin". That does not mean anything. It does not even mean your a Christian. And based on your comments it's obvious you do not know whom, various parts of scripture were addressed to.
Therein lies the problem. You do not accept the Word of God as the Word of God. You must first come to a faith in God and His Word. Until then your just talking about something you cannot understand.
As I've repeatedly said Ham, I accept the Word of God to be God's live-giving creative power. I have faith in this power; I trust it completely. Do you? I believe the Word of God is constantly working to manifest love and good in and through us and I trust that it will accomplish this life-giving purpose; it will not return to God void. This power cannot be contained in a book, or a collection of books, although the books can testify of it.
As I've repeatedly said Ham, I accept the Word of God to be God's live-giving creative power. I have faith in this power; I trust it completely. Do you? I believe the Word of God is constantly working to manifest love and good in and through us and I trust that it will accomplish this life-giving purpose; it will not return to God void. This power cannot be contained in a book, or a collection of books, although the books can testify of it.
I believe the "word of God" is God's word to given to man through men who have penned it. I believe God is capable of keeping His word in the form He wants us to have it so we can know His way's and plans. I believe the "Word" was with God and the "Word" was God. The Word is God's son. God's word is God's words that Jesus and the Apostles refer to as the word of God and scripture.
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