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Mike, I don't understand how anyone can come to a Christian forum and flat out say or pick and chose what parts of the bible is the Word of God or not, and argue it like they were there when the Word was delivered to the person being inspired to write it in the first place. If they deny one book what others don't they accept as well?
That is true Antredd. I asked the other poster what she thought about the book of Revelation because it states directly right at the beginning that the Revelation went from God the Father, to Jesus Christ, to John, who then wrote what he was commanded to write. It is amazing that someone who claims to be a believer can come out and say that what God communicates is not the word of God.
There are those who say that the Bible contains the word of God but is not the word of God. This allows them to pick and choose what they want to believe.
I understand, and I sympathize, having been there myself. I keep hoping the fact that there is common ground in believing that the bible does testify of God's Word will help to calm the angst, but I'm not really surprised that it doesn't.
(I have to say, I have a problem with using the word "contains", simply because I do not believe the power of God can be contained by anything, but perhaps it's just semantics. I believe the bible contains testimony of the Word.)
I would agree with your wonderful insight about that, Pleroo . . . not surprising though. The Holy Spirit is working through you . . . whether you believe it or not. The "fruits" do not lie.
What is this silly game some of you are playing? You know when we say the bible is the word of God we mean it is God's revelations and contact with man and what He wanted recorded as scripture for us to have. You keep wanting to change the meaning we use and scripture uses for this to the word "Word" as referring to Jesus. Stop playing games and discuss what we are talking about. Let us adults discuss serious matters.
So dramatic! Like one of those TV lawyer shows. Mike, I've been pretty clear all along what I believe to be the Word of God ... you didn't need to do some elaborate entrapment to get me to "admit" something that you believe to be condemning.
What I believe doesn't change the fact that YOU believe that the bible and God are so closely related as to be "one and the same" and that is what I've said all along I have a problem with. You obviously have a problem with it too, since you keep claiming that that ISN'T what you're saying, and yet you did say it, while denying you said it in the same breath.:
No, I do not believe that the Bible is God. I have already pointed out to you that in the original post I made a point of saying that the fact that the Bible is the word of God does NOT mean that the Bible is God. For you to persist in saying that I believe otherwise is purposeful misrepresentation of what I said.
I have also said that the fact that the Bible is the word of God means that it is God's communicated message to man.
As well, I have asked you, and you have not answered this either, 'Are you claiming that when Paul called his message the word of God, he was calling his message God? Refer to 1 Thess. 2:13.
Yes she did, as do you. You lift one comment out of its context and ignore the rest of what was said.
It was the apostle Paul who so closely identified the spoken words of God with Scripture that he called God's direct communication to Abraham and to Pharaoh through Moses Scripture even though there was no written Scripture at that point.
Repeated below is the full content of what I said on that subject in the original post.
It is interesting to note that in both Romans 9:17 and Galatians 3:8God and Scripture are so closely identified that they are treated as one and the same. That does not mean that the Bible is God, but only that it is God's word.
Romans 9:17 For the Scripture (graphé) says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed thoughtout the whole earth."
Galatians 3:8 The Scripture (graphé), foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "all the nations will be blessed in you".
The Scriptures had not been written at that point. In the case of Romans 9:17 in which Paul refers to Exodus 9:16, God spoke to Pharaoh through Moses. And in the case of Galatians 3:8 in which Paul refers back to Genesis 12:3; 18:18; 22:18; and 26:4, God spoke to Abraham.
Paul recognized that whether God speaks directly as He did to Abraham, or through a prophet as in the case of Moses speaking God's word to Pharaoh, or in the case of the written Scripture, it is all God's word. The word of God is both spoken and written. Understanding this, and under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul was authorized to identify what God had spoken to Abraham and to Pharaoh through Moses as Scripture. The written Scriptures are the word of God. God's word in writing.
So, then Calvinism is the Word of God, Luthernism is the Word of God, Mathew Henry's Commentary is the Word of God...
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Originally Posted by Mike555
No.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
They were inspired...Why no?...
No. Calvin, Luther, and Matthew Henry were not inspired in the sense in which 2 Tim. 3:16 uses the word. Inspiration refers to the fact that the Scriptures, both Old and New Testament originated with God. They were God-breathed (theopneustos). In the communication of God's word, which by the way does not mean that the entire Bible was dictated, although some parts were, the human writers of Scripture were carried along by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21). The Holy Spirit so superintended the writers of Scripture that they, with the use of their own writing style and vocabulary and writing within the framework of their own personality and frame of reference, recorded with perfect accuracy that which God intended to communicate to man.
Inspiration refers to the point of origin of the Scriptures and applies only to the original autographs.
No. Calvin, Luther, and Matthew Henry were not inspired in the sense in which 2 Tim. 3:16 uses the word. Inspiration refers to the fact that the Scriptures, both Old and New Testament originated with God. They were God-breathed (theopneustos). In the communication of God's word, which by the way does not mean that the entire Bible was dictated, although some parts were, the human writers of Scripture were carried along by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21). The Holy Spirit so superintended the writers of Scripture that they, with the use of their own writing style and vocabulary and writing within the framework of their own personality and frame of reference, recorded with perfect accuracy that which God intended to communicate to man.
Inspiration refers to the point of origin of the Scriptures and applies only to the original autographs.
Which parts were dictated and how could you possibly have determined that?????
Which parts were dictated and how could you possibly have determined that?????
Refer for example to those passages in the Old Testament which begin with, 'The word of the Lord came to me, saying...'. For instance, Jeremiah 1:4 and 2:1.
Another example is Revelation chapters 2 and 3, where Jesus told John to write to each of the seven churches and then proceeded to tell John the exact words to write.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-07-2013 at 01:17 PM..
But I came to a thought recently, where in John it said Jesus is the Word. It really made sense to me, because you would have to print a whole lot of Bibles, a substantial amount, to get in the hands of people the whole world over. And then they have to sit down and study it and then be imbued with power and knowledge that comes from it. That seems like an arduous system, to me, especially when the message of the Gospels is such an urgent one.
Since knowing that Jesus is the living, breathing Word, wouldn't it be more dynamic and flexible if He was the one going forth and letting people know about Him and then being saved? One wouldn't need the Bible for that. and it seems more "quicker" (in the sense of whoever and whenever He chooses to reveal Himself) and more...alive, you know? This can be seen where Muslims and others in the Middle East all experiencing visions of Jesus and then being saved, and a Bible wasn't even used! The same example could be found in the Scriptures, where we see people being led by the Holy Spirit to be saved and to carry out instructions as per Jesus via the Holy Spirit (Paul is a very good example).
I'm not saying the Bible is irrelevant and useless, it is good for instruction and correction (2 Timothy 3:16), but i'm just trying to bring up that God is more flexible and convenient than cutting down trees and printing and sending huge volumes of Bibles in hopes of people will read them and be saved.
But I came to a thought recently, where in John it said Jesus is the Word. It really made sense to me, because you would have to print a whole lot of Bibles, a substantial amount, to get in the hands of people the whole world over. And then they have to sit down and study it and then be imbued with power and knowledge that comes from it. That seems like an arduous system, to me, especially when the message of the Gospels is such an urgent one.
Since knowing that Jesus is the living, breathing Word, wouldn't it be more dynamic and flexible if He was the one going forth and letting people know about Him and then being saved? One wouldn't need the Bible for that. and it seems more "quicker" (in the sense of whoever and whenever He chooses to reveal Himself) and more...alive, you know? This can be seen where Muslims and others in the Middle East all experiencing visions of Jesus and then being saved, and a Bible wasn't even used! The same example could be found in the Scriptures, where we see people being led by the Holy Spirit to be saved and to carry out instructions as per Jesus via the Holy Spirit (Paul is a very good example).
I'm not saying the Bible is irrelevant and useless, it is good for instruction and correction (2 Timothy 3:16), but i'm just trying to bring up that God is more flexible and convenient than cutting down trees and printing and sending huge volumes of Bibles in hopes of people will read them and be saved.
Hi SkylightMike. Man is saved through the gospel message concerning Christ. God uses man to spread the gospel. The gospel message, whether spoken or written leads to life for those who believe its message concerning Jesus. Before ascending, Jesus told the apostles to go and make disciples of all the nations. And every believer has a responsibility to witness when God provides the opportunity to do so. The Holy Spirit in His common grace ministry makes the gospel understandable to the hearer and convicts of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-11).
Throughout human history God has revealed Himself to man in various ways. In Old Testament times He revealed Himself through Theophanies which were preincarnate appearances of Jesus. He communicated through prophets, dreams, visions, angelic visitations, and through the Scriptures as they then existed. In the fullness of time Jesus, who is God in the flesh came into the world.
The New Testament Scriptures are the result of the Holy Spirit communicating what God chose to reveal to the church age believer. The epistles provide instruction for living the spiritual life. The book of Revelation is prophetic and reveals God's plan as it pertains to the future. The four gospels which deal with the First Advent of Christ, while written during the Church Age, deal with the First Advent of Christ which was during the Age of Israel. The Bible, both Old and New Testament reveal all that God intended to reveal to man until the Second Advent of Christ.
Without the Bible we would have no knowledge of the things which God has revealed in His word. And in guiding the believer, the Holy Spirit uses only the doctrines and principles which have been transferred from the Bible into the soul of the believer to provide that guidance. It is through Bible doctrine metabolized into the believers soul and applied to the circumstances of life, that the believer grows spiritually.
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Mike, I've been pretty clear all along what I believe to be the Word of God ... you didn't need to do some elaborate entrapment to get me to "admit" something that you believe to be condemning. 
