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i really cant answer if universalist are more loving. i dont know any of them personally, i do believe in the salvation of all but i loath the name universalist. it is just an attempt to place us in a box. They want to label us to be able to point fingers. I do think some church folk, and non church folk, are loving. when i was in iraq, my best friend out there was athiest, he was a lot nice than the church folk out there. Love comes from our hearts, and hopefully not from our religion.
i think universalist have a more loving view. they dont have to say, " too bad, they did not repeat the sinners prayer now they burn (literally, with real fire) forever. Universalist know all is of God. God created evil and good. Universalist dont have to try to make excuses for God.
You become like the god you believe in, so in that sense the doctrine of eternal torment does harden hearts.
Its way to easy to write people off when you know your god is going to do the same in the end.
You're on the right track. It does require a hardened heart to embrace the doctrine of ET. Otherwise the ETers would spend every possible moment out in the streets pleading with people to "get saved". They would not ever have time to relax, go on vacation, shop, watch T.V. for entertainment or other such things while they could be out snatching people from the lake of fire - unless, of course, they put their own pleasures above saving people from such an indescribably miserable and eternal fate. The doctrine fails on every level of reasonableness. The doctrine makes God into a crazed lunatic.
Those who cannot harden their hearts are the ones who wind up having the nervous breakdowns from the doctrine and there are many who have including myself many years ago. I could not enjoy anything because of my belief in it. I just cried my heart out for many years because of it and worried myself sick. Until I found out the truth.
Thanks for your thought provoking thread.
I was going to say something similar Heartsong ... I don't think it hardened my heart when I believed it; it broke it.
We're attempting to add our own sense of justice to this issue. Heaven or Hell. It's not for us to judge the punishment. It's for God to judge. He is the righteous one. And God's word is quite clear about what happens to those souls who are not written in the book of life. Jesus himself said that "the dead will be separated out and they will be thrown into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." And Revelation expounds on this topic and makes it quite clear that the lake of fire is a real place and the devil along with all those not written the book of life will end up there.
So, contrary to OP, I'm more concerned with those who believe the truth of God's word than with those who "seem more loving."
I believe all of us have hardening of the heart to some extent. In whatever Light we see God in determines how hard our hearts are. We are the God we believe in.
I believe all of us have hardening of the heart to some extent. In whatever Light we see God in determines how hard our hearts are. We are the God we believe in.
If believing in Eternal Torment is crucial to being truly 'saved', as a few claim, and if one feels in his heart that torturing people forever is totally wrong, does God require that that person hardens his or her heart to his own feelings of mercy in order to, ironically enough, be embraced in the bosom of Love itself?
Do you think Universalists are more loving have a more positive view of God?
If Universalists are in error, perhaps the entire 'God is Love' paradigm must be re-thought. Maybe the old school fire'n'brimstone preachers were more correct. Moderator cut: deleted
"Eternal Torment" is not only not crucial to being saved --it's not Biblical! The early church (Book of Acts) gives no examples of eternal torment preaching.
Paul didn't talk hardly at all about "hell" and "brimstone." If it were important to warn people, why wouldn't this great "man of God" said at least a short reminder or two?
We're attempting to add our own sense of justice to this issue. Heaven or Hell. It's not for us to judge the punishment. It's for God to judge. He is the righteous one. And God's word is quite clear about what happens to those souls who are not written in the book of life. Jesus himself said that "the dead will be separated out and they will be thrown into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." And Revelation expounds on this topic and makes it quite clear that the lake of fire is a real place and the devil along with all those not written the book of life will end up there.
So, contrary to OP, I'm more concerned with those who believe the truth of God's word than with those who "seem more loving."
"Eternal Torment" is not only not crucial to being saved --it's not Biblical!
Quite simply, you're 100% wrong.
In Jesus' own words from Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."
This is the same fire spoke of in Revelation 20:15 "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
So yeah, eternal torment is absolutely real. Although, it's certainly not a popular teaching for most churches, as they're more concerned with boosting membership and $$$ than they are with teaching the truth of God's word.
it certainly causes fearful hearts
If ET were biblical truth, why were Adam and Eve not warned about ET in the beginning?
God said "eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and you shall die" not "Eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and you'll live in eternal torment"
wouldn't the beginning of the human race be a good time to bring it up?
and the "eternal fire" is GOD "a consuming fire" consuming as in consuming sin
not torturing sinners forever as sin would then exist forever and the bible makes it clear that sin and death will be destroyed
it certainly causes fearful hearts
If ET were biblical truth, why were Adam and Eve not warned about ET in the beginning?
God said "eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and you shall die" not "Eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and you'll live in eternal torment"
wouldn't the beginning of the human race be a good time to bring it up?
and the "eternal fire" is GOD "a consuming fire" consuming as in consuming sin
not torturing sinners forever as sin would then exist forever and the bible makes it clear that sin and death will be destroyed
I surely would think so.
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