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The "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine is NOT what Christians should be believing in.
It is a doctrine that makes God irrelevant. Any person, at any time, can make the statement that "I am saved" because I believe in Jesus Christ.
From that point on, it doesn't matter what sins that person commits or how often he commits them. He will STILL be going to Heaven because HE decided that he was - and NOT God. That is the height of arrogance - and that is NOT Christian.
I don't believe in the whole notion of "being saved". When a person dies, then GOD decides whether I am worthy of going to Heaven or not - and NOT me. I am NEVER going to state that I am worthy of being with Him. HE is going to decide that.
Whoever came up with this idiotic doctrine was horribly wrong in doing so.
The "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine is NOT what Christians should be believing in.
It is a doctrine that makes God irrelevant. Any person, at any time, can make the statement that "I am saved" because I believe in Jesus Christ.
From that point on, it doesn't matter what sins that person commits or how often he commits them. He will STILL be going to Heaven because HE decided that he was - and NOT God. That is the height of arrogance - and that is NOT Christian.
I don't believe in the whole notion of "being saved". When a person dies, then GOD decides whether I am worthy of going to Heaven or not - and NOT me. I am NEVER going to state that I am worthy of being with Him. HE is going to decide that.
Whoever came up with this idiotic doctrine was horribly wrong in doing so.
Would you believe it if I could show you from Scripture that it is true?
vizio - GOD lets YOU decide whether you are going to Heaven or not - even if you murder or rape someone.
That isn't the God that I fear. Yours is a rather pathetic, weak God.
Distort the verses all that you want to if it makes you feel better but then don't complain if He is angry with you when it is your turn to meet Him.
vizio - GOD lets YOU decide whether you are going to Heaven or not - even if you murder or rape someone.
That isn't the God that I fear. Yours is a rather pathetic, weak God.
Distort the verses all that you want to if it makes you feel better but then don't complain if He is angry with you when it is your turn to meet Him.
The Bible doesn't say that. Again, I ask--would you be willing to objectively look at what the Bible actually says? Or are you bent on ignoring scripture?
::Sigh:: WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING SAVED. NONE OF US ARE THE SAVIOR. CHRIST IS! All this agonizing over what WE need to do to BE SAVED is pointless and misguided by the corrupt Gospel taught by the mainstream churches to recruit and keep members. WE do nothing to BE SAVED. We must follow Christ to be sanctified under His love for us all . . . which is what SAVED US from eternal separation from God. God told His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and to repent when they didn't. THAT is what we must DO to follow Christ and have the cover of His perfect agape love for us all.
God regenerated me, and allowed me to see his goodness -- at which time I trusted Christ.
It's similar to if I gave my daughter a bowl of raw liver....or a bowl of her favorite ice cream. I know which one she'd choose--she doesn't have it in her to choose the raw liver.
::Sigh:: WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING SAVED. NONE OF US ARE THE SAVIOR. CHRIST IS! All this agonizing over what WE need to do to BE SAVED is pointless and misguided by the corrupt Gospel taught by the mainstream churches to recruit and keep members. WE do nothing to BE SAVED. We must follow Christ to be sanctified under His love for us all . . . which is what SAVED US from eternal separation from God. God told His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and to repent when they didn't. THAT is what we must DO to follow Christ and have the cover of His perfect agape love for us all.
And the implication is that if we don't do that? What then?
::Sigh:: WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING SAVED. NONE OF US ARE THE SAVIOR. CHRIST IS! All this agonizing over what WE need to do to BE SAVED is pointless and misguided by the corrupt Gospel taught by the mainstream churches to recruit and keep members. WE do nothing to BE SAVED. We must follow Christ to be sanctified under His love for us all . . . which is what SAVED US from eternal separation from God. God told His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and to repent when they didn't. THAT is what we must DO to follow Christ and have the cover of His perfect agape love for us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
And the implication is that if we don't do that? What then?
The majority of our "fruit" will be rotten. We will produce less than "100 fold or 60 fold or 30 fold" . . . but we are "saved as by fire" because of Christ. Our failures will be refined out as dross in the consuming fire of God's pure love.
As I understand "Once saved always saved," there is really no "security" because there is no way to know that you have been "saved" if people who believe that they have been depart from the faith and clearly "never were saved in the first place."
The belief that there is no way to know that you have been saved is directly refuted by the apostle John who says that you CAN know that you have been saved.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
If a believer departs from the faith and no longer believes, the Lord remains faithful.
2 Tim. 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
1 Thess. 5:24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
Phil. 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
The good work that God began is the believer's salvation. The believer has eternal salvation the very first moment he believes on Christ.
Eph. 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together (Aorist Indicative Active) with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
The work that God began in the believer will ultimately result in the believer being conformed to the image of His Son.
Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29] For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30] and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
The believer will ultimately be transformed to the image of His Son when he has been resurrected.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
Phil. 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21] who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
In summary, the believer is eternally saved the moment he first believes in Christ, and he can know that he is saved. Even if he loses his faith God remains faithful to complete the work that He began in the believer to ultimately transform him into the image of His Son.
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"Eternal Security" What's THAT all about?
