Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Church of Christ was founded by Christ not man and only speaks where the bible speaks. Where the bible is silent the church is silent unlike the majority of beliefs out here now. There only agenda is to enertain not save souls.
The Church Of Christ in Northern California that I atend is in no way cold or cultish. I am a new member and I have learned a lot of truth right from scripture. Unfortunately not all Churches under the same name are living up to the bible like they should.
The Church Of Christ in Northern California that I atend is in no way cold or cultish. I am a new member and I have learned a lot of truth right from scripture. Unfortunately not all Churches under the same name are living up to the bible like they should.
Good luck with the church hope you enjoy it. I am no longer a member too many laws for me that prohibited me from worshiping and praising the Lord like he deserves.
Cole try this thought you are saved then the next step is being baptized. If you die before ur baptized your still saved as long as the Lord knew what was in your heart. Baptism is very important but does not save its part of it. It is the work that comes through the believing.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were BAPTIZED INTO HIS (1) DEATH? Therefore we are (2) BURIED with him BY baptism into death: that like as Christ was (3) RAISED up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in NEWNESS of life......Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead (to sin) is freed from sin......(verse 14 explains we are not under the old law, but GRACE)......But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, BUT YE HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE which was delivered you. BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, ye became the servants of righteousness," Romans chapter 6. This tells me there is a form of doctrine that the Apostles delivered; people obeyed it when they were baptized; they emulated Christ's death, burial, and resurrection when they were baptized; they were THEN made free, not before. This is the gospel. It is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4. This says the gospel saves us.
Saved before baptism? Let's look at Saul of Tarsus in Acts chapters 9 and 22. He was on his way to Damascus to imprison Christians. The Lord struck him blind on that road and told him to "Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told you what youMUST do." Saul fasted and prayed for 3 days. If he was saved, why was he so upset? Because he was waiting to fulfill the Lord's command and do that "must" the Lord had told him about. Notice his sins were still present UNTIL AFTER he was baptized. Acts 22:16 is where he recounts his experience where Ananias was sent to him by the Lord to tell him what he MUST do, "And now what are you waiting for? Arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS, calling on the name of the Lord. This is when you "call on the name of the Lord." Your sins are still charged to you until after baptism. You cannot enter Heaven with sin charged to you. The Bible tells you that baptism is what gets rid of those sins, Acts 2:38.
In 1 Peter 3:21, the Bible compares the water of Noah's day to baptism, "..and this water symbolizes BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." What is the "it" in that last sentence...baptism. God's word says baptism saves us, washes our sins away, puts us INTO Christ, etc.. Man says, "It does not save us." Who are we to believe? God, of course.
Look at this analogy: He who EATS and is FILLED will be satisfied; but he who DOES NOT EAT will STARVE. Compare it to Mark 16:15-16 (which, by the way, are Jesus' own words/command, and he says, "If you love me, keep my commandments, John 14:15), "He who BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED will be saved; but he who DOES NOT BELIEVE will be CONDEMNED." If you don't eat, you won't be filled, and you will starve. If you do not believe, you won't be baptized, and you will be condemned. There was no reason for Jesus to say, "He who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned" because it doesn't matter how many times you are baptized if you don't believe, right? He did not need to repeat himself because a nonbeliever won't be baptized for the remission of sins anyway.
EVERY conversion to Christ in the book of Acts (when the church began) has baptism. And, they were baptized IMMEDIATELY. Why? Think about that.
"Faith only" is in the Bible one time, and the Bible says in James 2:14-26, "What doth it profit, my brethren , though a man say he hath faith and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked and destitite of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding you give them not those things which are needful to the body; what does it profit? EVEN SO FAITH, IF IT HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD, BEING ALONE. Yes, a man may say, you have faith, and I have works: show me you faith without your works, and I WILL SHOW YOU MY FAITH BY MY WORKS. YOU BELIEVE THERE IS ONE GOD; YOU DO WELL: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE AND TREMBLE. But will you know, oh vain man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? See thou how FAITH OPERATED WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT? And the scripture was FULFILLED which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. YOU SEE THEN HOW THAT BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? FOR AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO." Just believing isn’t enough; the devils believe and tremble, and the Bible says Hell is reserved for them.
JESUS HIMSELF COMMANDS US TO BAPTIZE OTHERS TO BE SAVED, Mk 16:16, Mt. 28:19-20. Phillip "preached Jesus" to the Eunuch in Acts 8, and no where did it say he taught him baptism, but the Eunuch asked, "See here is water. What doth hinder me to be baptized?" Either preaching baptism is included in "preaching Jesus," or the Eunuch asked a really dumb question.
Let's look at Colossians 2:12-13, "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened (made alive) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses..." When does God forgive and make you alive again with Christ? He forgives when you are baptized.
Jesus commands us to be baptized with the ONE baptism of today, Eph. 4. WHAT is it? An immersion or burial in water, Col. 2:12-14. You don't just take someone out and sprinkle a little dirt on them when they are buried. You cover them. Phillip and the Eunuch both went "DOWN INTO THE WATER." WHY? For forgiveness/remission of sins. Remit means to refrain from inflicting or enforcing, as a punishment or sentence. To pardon or forgive. To restore to a previous condition or position. When does God's Spirit begin to dwell in us? When we are baptized, Ac. 2:38; Ac. 22:16; Heb. 9:17; Col. 2:11-13 You are baptized, and then you are dead in sins; not before. Mt. 26:28 blood shed for remission of sins. Baptism puts one INTO CHRIST, Gal. 3:26-27. Salvation is IN Christ, II Tim 2:10. We are children of God by faith in Jesus because we are baptized into Christ, Gal. 3:27. Do you want to be IN Christ? You must be baptized INTO him. I Cor. 12:12-13, Eph. 1:22-23 (body is the church), Rom. 6, Jn 14:20 "ye in me", "abide in me". It saves us, I Pet. 3:21, Mk. 16:16, Ac. 16:16-34 (Philippian jailer). Jesus' blood was shed for the remission of sins (Lord's Supper), Mt. 26:28. Blood and water came out of Jesus' side when the soldier stabbed his side, JESUS' BAPTISM was to fulfill all righteousness, Mt. 3:13-17 (this is the first time God calls Jesus his son), Mk. 1:9-10, Lk 3:21-22, Jn. 1:31-34
You better believe grace saves us! Thank God for it because we don't deserve it. That is what it means when it says we are saved by grace, we are not worthy, but God saw fit to grant us his grace....IF we obey him. I challenge everyone to look up everything in the New Testament that says it "saves" us. You will find there are many things that save us, like believing Jesus is God's son, confessing Christ, repentance of sins, baptism, grace, etc. Who am I to take any one of these elements out of the equation? If God says they all save, then I am going to do and accept every one. We are saved by the grace of God and the blood of Christ.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were BAPTIZED INTO HIS (1) DEATH? Therefore we are (2) BURIED with him BY baptism into death: that like as Christ was (3) RAISED up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in NEWNESS of life......Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead (to sin) is freed from sin......(verse 14 explains we are not under the old law, but GRACE)......But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, BUT YE HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE which was delivered you. BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, ye became the servants of righteousness," Romans chapter 6. This tells me there is a form of doctrine that the Apostles delivered; people obeyed it when they were baptized; they emulated Christ's death, burial, and resurrection when they were baptized; they were THEN made free, not before. This is the gospel. It is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4. This says the gospel saves us.
Saved before baptism? Let's look at Saul of Tarsus in Acts chapters 9 and 22. He was on his way to Damascus to imprison Christians. The Lord struck him blind on that road and told him to "Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told you what youMUST do." Saul fasted and prayed for 3 days. If he was saved, why was he so upset? Because he was waiting to fulfill the Lord's command and do that "must" the Lord had told him about. Notice his sins were still present UNTIL AFTER he was baptized. Acts 22:16 is where he recounts his experience where Ananias was sent to him by the Lord to tell him what he MUST do, "And now what are you waiting for? Arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS, calling on the name of the Lord. This is when you "call on the name of the Lord." Your sins are still charged to you until after baptism. You cannot enter Heaven with sin charged to you. The Bible tells you that baptism is what gets rid of those sins, Acts 2:38.
In 1 Peter 3:21, the Bible compares the water of Noah's day to baptism, "..and this water symbolizes BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." What is the "it" in that last sentence...baptism. God's word says baptism saves us, washes our sins away, puts us INTO Christ, etc.. Man says, "It does not save us." Who are we to believe? God, of course.
Look at this analogy: He who EATS and is FILLED will be satisfied; but he who DOES NOT EAT will STARVE. Compare it to Mark 16:15-16 (which, by the way, are Jesus' own words/command, and he says, "If you love me, keep my commandments, John 14:15), "He who BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED will be saved; but he who DOES NOT BELIEVE will be CONDEMNED." If you don't eat, you won't be filled, and you will starve. If you do not believe, you won't be baptized, and you will be condemned. There was no reason for Jesus to say, "He who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned" because it doesn't matter how many times you are baptized if you don't believe, right? He did not need to repeat himself because a nonbeliever won't be baptized for the remission of sins anyway.
EVERY conversion to Christ in the book of Acts (when the church began) has baptism. And, they were baptized IMMEDIATELY. Why? Think about that.
"Faith only" is in the Bible one time, and the Bible says in James 2:14-26, "What doth it profit, my brethren , though a man say he hath faith and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked and destitite of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding you give them not those things which are needful to the body; what does it profit? EVEN SO FAITH, IF IT HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD, BEING ALONE. Yes, a man may say, you have faith, and I have works: show me you faith without your works, and I WILL SHOW YOU MY FAITH BY MY WORKS. YOU BELIEVE THERE IS ONE GOD; YOU DO WELL: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE AND TREMBLE. But will you know, oh vain man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? See thou how FAITH OPERATED WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT? And the scripture was FULFILLED which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. YOU SEE THEN HOW THAT BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? FOR AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO." Just believing isn’t enough; the devils believe and tremble, and the Bible says Hell is reserved for them.
JESUS HIMSELF COMMANDS US TO BAPTIZE OTHERS TO BE SAVED, Mk 16:16, Mt. 28:19-20. Phillip "preached Jesus" to the Eunuch in Acts 8, and no where did it say he taught him baptism, but the Eunuch asked, "See here is water. What doth hinder me to be baptized?" Either preaching baptism is included in "preaching Jesus," or the Eunuch asked a really dumb question.
Let's look at Colossians 2:12-13, "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened (made alive) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses..." When does God forgive and make you alive again with Christ? He forgives when you are baptized.
Jesus commands us to be baptized with the ONE baptism of today, Eph. 4. WHAT is it? An immersion or burial in water, Col. 2:12-14. You don't just take someone out and sprinkle a little dirt on them when they are buried. You cover them. Phillip and the Eunuch both went "DOWN INTO THE WATER." WHY? For forgiveness/remission of sins. Remit means to refrain from inflicting or enforcing, as a punishment or sentence. To pardon or forgive. To restore to a previous condition or position. When does God's Spirit begin to dwell in us? When we are baptized, Ac. 2:38; Ac. 22:16; Heb. 9:17; Col. 2:11-13 You are baptized, and then you are dead in sins; not before. Mt. 26:28 blood shed for remission of sins. Baptism puts one INTO CHRIST, Gal. 3:26-27. Salvation is IN Christ, II Tim 2:10. We are children of God by faith in Jesus because we are baptized into Christ, Gal. 3:27. Do you want to be IN Christ? You must be baptized INTO him. I Cor. 12:12-13, Eph. 1:22-23 (body is the church), Rom. 6, Jn 14:20 "ye in me", "abide in me". It saves us, I Pet. 3:21, Mk. 16:16, Ac. 16:16-34 (Philippian jailer). Jesus' blood was shed for the remission of sins (Lord's Supper), Mt. 26:28. Blood and water came out of Jesus' side when the soldier stabbed his side, JESUS' BAPTISM was to fulfill all righteousness, Mt. 3:13-17 (this is the first time God calls Jesus his son), Mk. 1:9-10, Lk 3:21-22, Jn. 1:31-34
You better believe grace saves us! Thank God for it because we don't deserve it. That is what it means when it says we are saved by grace, we are not worthy, but God saw fit to grant us his grace....IF we obey him. I challenge everyone to look up everything in the New Testament that says it "saves" us. You will find there are many things that save us, like believing Jesus is God's son, confessing Christ, repentance of sins, baptism, grace, etc. Who am I to take any one of these elements out of the equation? If God says they all save, then I am going to do and accept every one. We are saved by the grace of God and the blood of Christ.
Your right I do believe also we are saved by the grace of God and the blood of Christ. I just don't follow all the other things that says we are saved by baptism. Guess we have to agree to disagree.
Your right I do believe also we are saved by the grace of God and the blood of Christ. I just don't follow all the other things that says we are saved by baptism. Guess we have to agree to disagree.
I'm curious. How can you say that you believe some things the bible says but not the other things? That's a contradiction. Also in post #882 you asked if baptism is a work. You agreed that it was in post #884. In post #886, you said that baptism is VERY IMPORTANT, but does not save its part of it. Why is it VERY IMPORTANT? Then you said in the same post that "it is the WORK that comes through believing". This is also a contradiction because you say that baptism does not save, but the WORK that's through believing but then you agree that baptism is a WORK.
I'm curious. How can you say that you believe some things the bible says but not the other things? That's a contradiction. Also in post #882 you asked if baptism is a work. You agreed that it was in post #884. In post #886, you said that baptism is VERY IMPORTANT, but does not save its part of it. Why is it VERY IMPORTANT? Then you said in the same post that "it is the WORK that comes through believing". This is also a contradiction because you say that baptism does not save, but the WORK that's through believing but then you agree that baptism is a WORK.
To begin with I don't care how many times we debate this it comes down to having to agree to disagree. Let me clarify for you though we try to follow in Christs footsteps so as Christians we should want to be baptized as it is an outward showing of us burying our sins. Now the bible says we are saved through grace, there is no work in believing the only work is baptism. That's my stand if you don't like it im sorry but I am not believing another way due to some who don't like my beliefs.
To begin with I don't care how many times we debate this it comes down to having to agree to disagree. Let me clarify for you though we try to follow in Christs footsteps so as Christians we should want to be baptized as it is an outward showing of us burying our sins. Now the bible says we are saved through grace, there is no work in believing the only work is baptism. That's my stand if you don't like it im sorry but I am not believing another way due to some who don't like my beliefs.
It seems that I struck a nerve, which tells me that you know what's right but you just don't want to accept it (2 Tim. 4:3-4). Sure we are going to agree and disagree, but that is not going to change what God has said. I have nothing against what you believe, that's fine with me. People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of what God has said. When it comes to salvation, faith, grace, baptism, works, and others are going to work together one way or another. They are not in the bible for nothing. When you have disagreements on certain topics, everybody cannot be right, somebody somewhere is wrong and people are not going to realize this until the day of judgment but it will be too late.
It seems that I struck a nerve, which tells me that you know what's right but you just don't want to accept it (2 Tim. 4:3-4). Sure we are going to agree and disagree, but that is not going to change what God has said. I have nothing against what you believe, that's fine with me. People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of what God has said. When it comes to salvation, faith, grace, baptism, works, and others are going to work together one way or another. They are not in the bible for nothing. When you have disagreements on certain topics, everybody cannot be right, somebody somewhere is wrong and people are not going to realize this until the day of judgment but it will be too late.
Well the only nerve that you strike is by being of arrogance and trying to tell others what is right and what is wrong. If everyone believed as you do then we would all believe in only one type of church and so on. However each person has to read the bible and decipher for themselves what the Word is saying. I know what is right and I accept it.
Well the only nerve that you strike is by being of arrogance and trying to tell others what is right and what is wrong. If everyone believed as you do then we would all believe in only one type of church and so on. However each person has to read the bible and decipher for themselves what the Word is saying. I know what is right and I accept it.
Good morning! I just read all of the responses after that "book" I wrote. I am just wondering, what is your take on James 2 where it says salvation is not by faith only? It makes a good point about how the devils believe/have faith in the Son of God. They are still going to a terrible place. That whole section is trying to convey the message that just believing is not enough. Luke 5:46, "And why call ye me Lord, Lord, and don't do the things which I say?"
What do you think about Ephesians 4:4-6? "There is one body, one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father who is above all, and through all, and in you all." In Colossians 1:18 we are told the body is the church, "And he is head of the body, the church..." Also, Ephesians 1:22-23, "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all." Christ prayed for unity, John 17:21, and that we all speak the same things. When we divide off, disagree, and start teaching different things we become a denomination (fragmented and divided).
I love discussing the Bible b/c it makes me study even more, but I don't think we should argue. You're right that sometimes we have to agree to disagree. I just think the others on here are simply trying to teach God's word. I don't think they are trying to hurt anyone. I sure don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but sometimes just teaching the Word has that effect. May God help us to know His will.
Last edited by ttjones; 08-19-2009 at 06:59 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Salvation comes after baptism
