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ok, I have three questions and I hope I word them correctly so as not to confuse anyone.
1). Has the LDS church always considered itself a christian denomination seeing as how, according to LDS doctrine, God told Joseph Smith that he should have nothing to do with any of the churches at the time? If that's the case, did God not want him to associate in any way, shape or form with any of the so-called "christian" churches of that time and the present? If not, what were they to be referred to as?
2). If the term christian was coined by the people in the book of Acts, my assumption is that the term christian was derived from the following of the doctrine of that time, namely weeks after Jesus died on the cross and appeared to the disciples. Does the LDS church align itself with the doctrine of that era and/or the doctrine that was passed on to Joseph Smith? If not the book of Acts period of time, are the doctrines different?
3). If they hadn't at the time that Joseph Smith started the LDS church, when did the church begin to consider itself a denomination within the parameters of christianity as it is understood? Is it a recent alignment or has it been in effect for years and simply no one paid any attention to it?
I hope these questions make sense. If not, please say something and I'll try to elaborate on it to make it clearer. God bless.
Good questions urbanlemur. For many years Mormonism was blatantly and openly considered a cult by many within and outside of the Church. The leaders recognized that it was much more expedient and profitable to package Mormonism as part of mainstream Christianity while in the background maintaining their belief that what they were attaching themselves to was not really even Christianity at all but was TOTALLY apostate!
Coolcats has admitted something that many Mormons will not--because it is insulting and puts people off. Most Mormons I have met do all that they can to attempt to make themselves a part of Christianity and do not tell how their church really views us. Mitt Romney is a case in point. I wonder how far he would get in his race for the White House if he told those evangelicals whose votes he seeks what he really thinks about them and their faith.
Yet we are the ones attacking Mormonism! After over 1800 years, all churches were declared by the "prophet" Joseph Smith to be COMPLETELY wrong, lacking any semblance of truth whatsoever and accursed by God. How are we supposed to respond to such an assessment?
You know what I am confused about. Everyone says that LDS church believes in polygamy. Is this true?
No and yes.
No, because members of the LDS church don't currently practice polygamy. (And most that I've talked to are very happy about that.) In fact, polygamists are excommunicated from the LDS church.
Yes, because the LDS church approves of the polygamy practiced by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and other early Mormon leaders. Official church doctrine is that God commanded Joseph Smith to practice polygamy and that others were also "called" to be polygamists. So even though LDS members don't practice polygamy now, the church "believes" in polygamy in the sense that it hasn't denounced its polygamist past.
Quote Preterist: "You already know the basic belief of Christian churches concerning what I prefer to call the Tri-unity. And it is fundamental and necessary for any group to rightfully call itself "Christian."
Preterist:
I was raised LDS. I am not familiar with your terminology "Tri-unity". You are using it as a yard-stick to judge the Mormons and everyone else. But the yard stick in my mind is not defined. If you choose not to define your belief that is up to you.
When I was in school I was taught to contrast and compare. I cannot do that without understanding what you believe.
Perhaps someone else can define "Tri-unity" since Preterist feels it would be inappropriate and take too long.
Urban, Momtofour? Others? Do you know what she is talking about? Do you all believe in the "Tri-unity"? Do you know what it is? Can you define it for me?
Alpha, I feel this to be in keeping with the theme of the thread since Preterist is making the point that Mormons are not "Christian" as she defines it. What do you Say?
I think you are viewing our desire to be called Christians in the wrong light. You think we want to be called Christians that are SIMILAR TO or JUST LIKE you. That is not true. We do not want to be considered just like you. Just as you consider us to be heretical, we believe you are doing the best you can with limited light because your interpretation is clouded by the apostate changes to pure doctrines. There are distinct differences. We do not want those differences to disappear, because they are the doctrinal foundation for the existence of a separate Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The issue we take is with your co-opting the term Christian for you and those like you.
From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a Christian is “one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.” We certainly profess such a belief. Whether you think our belief is correct, is frankly you prerogative after you determine the best you can with the light you have available to you. But by your attempting to put us outside the dictionary definition means you are assuming de facto authority to do so, which is not granted you under the rules of the English language.
Thanks Coolcats. Why didn't I think of that. Unfortunately Preterist is very offended at your honest answer. Maybe I can add a little insight.
Urban, Momtofour? Others? Do you know what she is talking about? Do you all believe in the "Tri-unity"? Do you know what it is? Can you define it for me?
I *think* Preterist is using "Tri-unity" in place of the more common "Trinity" but I'm not sure. And I am not the one to look to for an explanation of the Trinity. I have the same problem you do--I was raised Mormon. ;-)
Thanks Coolcats. Why didn't I think of that. Unfortunately Preteris is very offended at the truth. Maybe I can add a little insight.
Honestly, I don't know of anyone who enjoys being told that their religion is wrong or incomplete or not as good as someone else's.
Non-Mormon Christians are offended when Mormons say they have "limited light because [their] interpretation is clouded by the apostate changes to pure doctrines."
Mormons are offended when Non-Mormon Christians say "the Jesus of Mormonism is NOT the Jesus of Christianity."
And I can see that, because both statements are offensive.
This is why I tend to lean towards a "many paths up the mountain" theology. I think the "my church is the only true church" belief (or even the "my church is the truest" belief) brings out the worst in humans in general and that people are much closer to God when they can acknowledge that someone else's religious experience can be *just* as valid and *just* as saving as their own.
ok, I have three questions and I hope I word them correctly so as not to confuse anyone.
1). Has the LDS church always considered itself a christian denomination seeing as how, according to LDS doctrine, God told Joseph Smith that he should have nothing to do with any of the churches at the time? If that's the case, did God not want him to associate in any way, shape or form with any of the so-called "christian" churches of that time and the present? If not, what were they to be referred to as?
2). If the term christian was coined by the people in the book of Acts, my assumption is that the term christian was derived from the following of the doctrine of that time, namely weeks after Jesus died on the cross and appeared to the disciples. Does the LDS church align itself with the doctrine of that era and/or the doctrine that was passed on to Joseph Smith? If not the book of Acts period of time, are the doctrines different?
3). If they hadn't at the time that Joseph Smith started the LDS church, when did the church begin to consider itself a denomination within the parameters of christianity as it is understood? Is it a recent alignment or has it been in effect for years and simply no one paid any attention to it?
I hope these questions make sense. If not, please say something and I'll try to elaborate on it to make it clearer. God bless.
Urban, to answer question number one, the LDS church has always condidered itself a Christian Church. God did not direct Josehp Smith to so as you say, i. e., "have nothing to do with them". I will give you the direct quote.
18 My object in going to inquire (broken link) of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong (broken link); and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors (broken link) were all corrupt (broken link); that: “they draw (broken link) near to me with their lips, but their hearts (broken link) are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments (broken link) of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power (broken link) thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time
Joseph was wanting to know which church to join. He was told to join none of them. Why? Because their man-made doctrines (creeds) were wrong, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men. God was not saying that the Christian churches at that time were void of truth. To the contrary they were and still are full of truth, but there was also much error--man-made error. Please notice that the Lord was not condemning the members of those churches, which included Joseph's own family; He was condemning the creeds and false doctrines. The professors were corrupted by those false doctrines.
Urban, Momtofour? Others? Do you know what she is talking about? Do you all believe in the "Tri-unity"? Do you know what it is? Can you define it for me?
I *think* Preterist is using "Tri-unity" in place of the more common "Trinity" but I'm not sure. And I am not the one to look to for an explanation of the Trinity. I have the same problem you do--I was raised Mormon. ;-)
Honestly, I don't know of anyone who enjoys being told that their religion is wrong or incomplete or not as good as someone else's.
Non-Mormon Christians are offended when Mormons say they have "limited light because [their] interpretation is clouded by the apostate changes to pure doctrines."
Mormons are offended when Non-Mormon Christians say "the Jesus of Mormonism is NOT the Jesus of Christianity."
And I can see that, because both statements are offensive.
This is why I tend to lean towards a "many paths up the mountain" theology. I think the "my church is the only true church" belief (or even the "my church is the truest" belief) brings out the worst in humans in general and that people are much closer to God when they can acknowledge that someone else's religious experience can be *just* as valid and *just* as saving as their own.
I think that you are right about people being offended at that. But we do not condemn others to hell for not accepting the LDS church. There are so many wonderful christians in this country. Our society would not survive without their influence.
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