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I didn't ask if you advocate discrimination. I asked if you are standing up for those who are gay who are being discriminated against by your fellow fundamentalists?
on a personal level, yes i do. refer back to my comments on my workplace as a substance abuse counselor. am i out banging the drum for them? no. but then, do you do likewise for Christians?
And I really, truly hate that you went through those things.It is also why I can't fathom how you can be okay for this to be going on in regards to other people. For the record, I am against ALL discrimination, whether it be against gay people, cleft palates, being black, being Christian, whatever.
No, I clearly don't say that. At all.
Again, I do not, and have not, painted ALL Christians in this light. Period. End of story.
Also again, I am not talking about the people who just live and let live. I am talking specifics here urban. You have yet to come out and say that you believe gay people should have the same rights and not be discriminated against, so you are in that camp until you do so. Otherwise, you are complicit in the discrimination they face.
You have claimed they don't face discrimination, and you have yet to say you don't condone it, or believe that they should be treated as equals, at least not that I have seen... So what are we to think urban? You have claimed that people hate you, and you have claimed that gay people should just be happy they don't live somewhere else (which again leads anyone reading to believe you are okay with their continued discrimination). So, if you have said otherwise, please point me to it so I can apologize. Until then, you are clearly acting as if you are okay with it.
You know what is actually sad? The fact that you keep claiming I have said things that I haven't. You either need to read more carefully, or stop misrepresenting what I have said.
on a personal level, yes i do. refer back to my comments on my workplace as a substance abuse counselor.
Could you give a post number where you spoke of that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur
am i out banging the drum for them? no. but then, do you do likewise for Christians?
I was a Christian for decades, and was never discriminated against based on my religion. Most of my family and friends are still Christian. I've never heard any of them share any stories of discrimination based on their religion. Race and gender, yes, often by other Christians. But not based on their religion.
Could you give a post number where you spoke of that?
I was a Christian for decades, and was never discriminated against based on my religion. Most of my family and friends are still Christian. I've never heard any of them share any stories of discrimination based on their religion. Race and gender, yes, often by other Christians. But not based on their religion.
as a substance abuse counselor here in NYC, i have worked with a number of them and i treated them equally as the rest: with love and compassion and with a heart to help them overcome their addictions. i have held some of them in my arms as they sobbed uncontrollably after receiving news about an extremely low T-cell count or discovered that they had AIDS. some even accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and chose to be celibate for the remainder of their lives so that they could do the work of the Lord in sharing the Gospel. this they did completely of their own accord and not by coercion, threats or "therapy".
my work with them was dismissed as irrelevant since black people work with racist whites. that got me pretty upset because i put my heart and soul into that position to help everyone, including those were gay. i had to protect them from some of the men in that facility who were unhappy about them being there. it wasn't just a job, it was a calling and i performed in that calling the best i could to help others and to glorify God, most importantly. to trivialize my work there was pretty callous when i read it but i understand some folks don't care and i accept that.
i try to treat everyone equally. just because i don't go out and protest or lend my voice publicly to causes doesn't mean that i don't care. i am saddened by a lot of the things posted here because they are hurtful to others on both sides of the fence and i really think this thread should just come to an end. on a personal note, plain and simple, i am getting worn out being here (my neurological condition) and it drains me to be here when i need to tend to other matters. i just cannot do it anymore so i have to bid adeiu to everyone here. i wish things could be different between us but Scripture tells me that in these "last days", the times are going to get more and more difficult with more and more strife and struggle between men. to tell you the truth, some days i am just ready to go home to be with the Lord but i try and make each day count the best i can.
i do not advocate discrimination against anyone, period. now, i cannot change what the Bible says but i do know what Jesus wants us as Christians do to and that is to share the Word with ALL the world. He met and sat with sinners from all backgrounds and preached the Gospel to them all. after He healed many of the people from their infirmities, He told them to "go and sin no more" because He knew their hearts. one of my friends in our former church was gay when he began attending services and accepted Christ as His Savior. the more he read the Bible, he decided, of his own accord, to become celibate and live his life in service of God and the church.
we are all human beings and we should all have the same basic privileges for living as the rest of us. whether i agree with others regarding their beliefs doesn't matter, God gave us all free will to make choices in life, whether they be right or wrong. i chose to follow Christ years ago and i have never regretted it and i want to share the Gospel with others. most of the time, people are not interested so i bless them and continue on. for the others, i will share what Jesus did on the Cross and why He did it and that is because we are ALL sinners in need of salvation. that's how i live my life and that's how my wife and i live. i can't speak for anyone else but i believe we are trying our best to live according to the Bible. we are not perfect but we are trying our best and that's all anyone can do.
It is not about changing what the bible says, it is about understanding what it means.
The churches have had an imperfect idea of what the kingdom of God is..... traditional belief is that it is about immortality, and going to heaven (if you are a Christian) and non christians going to hell because the National things in the scriptures are taken as personal. The signs and symbols have been taken as literal, and we ended with a religion which worships the man Jesus instead of understanding that the written things are spiritual not literal.
“My words are spirit and life” the scriptures were not composed of historical things, the same spirit in the NT was in the OT
you as a human being are no different to other humans because you go to church, you are a vessel in the temple of God which is being built, the temple is not individual people, all people (humans) have the breath of life.
1Co 15:39 Not every flesh is the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fish, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;
1Co 15:41 one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
When the scriptures talk of men, fish, birds, beasts, sun, moon, stars they are not talking literally. We are not to worship the sun, moon, stars
The creation story in not about a physical creation of the universe, it is about the timing and overall plan of God relating to his people, the nation, that rules the earth in righteousness.
It is about Jews with their knowledge of the law and prophets realising what the symbols mean, joining with the Christian (who understands what the symbols in the NT mean) and becoming one, a new creature through Christ.
Which still say that you do nothing to help stop the discrimination. Congrats, you work as a substance abuse counselor, and some of your people happen to be gay... If you are just sitting here doing absolutely nothing to help stop it, and in fact barely even saying you don't condone it, you are complicit.
Good grief, it's 2018 and people are still out there trying to preach homosexuality is a sin and people should repent. They're simply born that way, no different from anyone else.
move on.
There is no proof that people are born that way. In fact, many are showed to have a history of sexual relations with members of the opposite sex especially lesbians. I don't think that would happen if you were "born that way". We now live in a society where people change their orientation or gender like changing into a pair of jeans.
as a substance abuse counselor here in NYC, i have worked with a number of them and i treated them equally as the rest: with love and compassion and with a heart to help them overcome their addictions. i have held some of them in my arms as they sobbed uncontrollably after receiving news about an extremely low T-cell count or discovered that they had AIDS. some even accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and chose to be celibate for the remainder of their lives so that they could do the work of the Lord in sharing the Gospel. this they did completely of their own accord and not by coercion, threats or "therapy".
That's great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur
my work with them was dismissed as irrelevant since black people work with racist whites. that got me pretty upset because i put my heart and soul into that position to help everyone, including those were gay. i had to protect them from some of the men in that facility who were unhappy about them being there. it wasn't just a job, it was a calling and i performed in that calling the best i could to help others and to glorify God, most importantly. to trivialize my work there was pretty callous when i read it but i understand some folks don't care and i accept that.
Not dismissed, only pointed out that simply working with someone doesn't mean you are somehow on their side, or don't dislike them. There is a difference, you know? The very fact that you keep talking about how you did it to "glorify God" and you helped lead them to Jesus and whatnot, only makes it sound like you did it because you had a captive audience of people down on their luck, that you could try and convert... Not saying that is what you did, only what it sounds like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur
i try to treat everyone equally. just because i don't go out and protest or lend my voice publicly to causes doesn't mean that i don't care. i am saddened by a lot of the things posted here because they are hurtful to others on both sides of the fence and i really think this thread should just come to an end. on a personal note, plain and simple, i am getting worn out being here (my neurological condition) and it drains me to be here when i need to tend to other matters. i just cannot do it anymore so i have to bid adeiu to everyone here. i wish things could be different between us but Scripture tells me that in these "last days", the times are going to get more and more difficult with more and more strife and struggle between men. to tell you the truth, some days i am just ready to go home to be with the Lord but i try and make each day count the best i can.
on that note, blessings to all
Actually, if you simply sit back and let it happen, with nary a word, it does in fact mean you don't care. If you did, you wouldn't let your fundamentalist brothers and sisters demean and bully gay people. Yet you do. If you cared, you would speak up against the teachings that allow such behavior. Yet you don't. If you cared, you would do more than simply work with those who happen to have substance abuse issues. Especially considering the issues that could be causing it are brought on by fundamentalists like yourself...
Anyways, blessings to you as well. May you find the strength to do something to help out your gay brothers and sisters, instead of demeaning them and allowing all of the bullying and discrimination to pass without a word.
There is no proof that people are born that way. In fact, many are showed to have a history of sexual relations with members of the opposite sex especially lesbians. I don't think that would happen if you were "born that way". We now live in a society where people change their orientation or gender like changing into a pair of jeans.
so you wee born heterosexual? Or maybe you are not? just asking.
Were you born with the sexual identity you currently have? Or did you learn it from those around you?
There is no proof that people are born that way. In fact, many are showed to have a history of sexual relations with members of the opposite sex especially lesbians. I don't think that would happen if you were "born that way". We now live in a society where people change their orientation or gender like changing into a pair of jeans.
I think you know next to nothing about human sexuality if you think this means people aren't gay. One of my best friends growing up always had a boyfriend. Lost her virginity early on, to a boy, and kept on have relations with men up until she was about 20. At that point, she started doing drugs, started drinking, and tried to commit suicide. When I asked her why she did it, she said, "Because I can't live life being someone I'm not anymore".
Long story short, she knew she was a lesbian from the time she was old enough to know what being gay way. Unfortunately, she had very religious parents who always made derogatory comments about gay people, and made it clear they disliked gay people, and didn't want any around them because they were disgusting abominations. So, she proceeded to over compensate, trying to "prove" to both herself and her parents, that she wasn't gay. Thankfully, after that experience and a lot of help from her friends (not her family. They were a lost cause), she is now happily married to a woman, and they have a beautiful adopted child. She no longer sees her family, but is happier than she has ever been.
In other words, gay kids, when faced with the possibility of your parents disowning you, or being bullied incessantly by the ignorant morons around you, choose the path of least resistance. In case you didn't get that, that would mean acting straight, even if they aren't. You should really get out more, Jeffery, because it is clear you know NOTHING about gay people, even when you come on here acting like you do. People like myself, who actually have experience in this area are far more qualified to speak on it than the like of you.
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